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Draw Bridge —

November 20, 2012

Fitness CircleJerk can set the terms of its own community, which seems to be a strawman paradise. I pride myself on allowing actual science- and reason-based dialogue to take place, even from those who vehemently disagree with what I, and our other bloggers, believe is true, especially regarding the science of weight loss.

But the past few days have shown me that FCJ is like a den of cockroaches and although there are a handful of members who seem interested in legitimate debate, the rest are all loud-mouth dick-swingers who just want to talk trash and be a general nuisance. From here on out, I’m moderating with an iron fist. You want to talk science? Do it respectfully or your comment is gone. I’m done letting our domain be overrun by semi-literate trolls. My house, my rules.

24 Comments leave one →
  1. November 20, 2012 8:07 pm

    “I pride myself on allowing actual science- and reason-based dialogue to take place, even from those who vehemently disagree with what I, and our other bloggers, believe is true, especially regarding the science of weight loss.”

    If you actually want to argue against the scientific theory that weight loss is possible by maintaining a negative energy balance, I suggest you contact any member of the large contingent of scientists who publish research supporting this theory and engage in your science- and reason-based dialogue with them, instead of focusing your energy on a group of laypeople congregating on a satirical forum about fitness. Were you genuinely looking for an opportunity to have a scientific discussion on the validity of various weight loss theories, your search would not have led you to FCJ, a place where “HAES” is synonymous with “fat slob”: and absolutely nothing is meant to be taken seriously, even when preceded by the tag [4reals].

    You poked a wasps nest, got stung, and now you’re crying foul and claiming you were just trying to harvest some honey.

    • November 20, 2012 9:24 pm

      Excuse me, bitch, but I was under the impression your troglodyte brethren found us, not the other way around. Piss off either way.

      • November 20, 2012 9:58 pm

        Your claims about wanting to have a reasoned debate about science are highly suspect when you start calling anyone who disagrees with you a bitch and troglodyte.

        Good day.

        • November 20, 2012 11:34 pm

          I don’t want any reasoned debate. That would be Shannon. Can you read? I want you and your people to fuck off.

    • November 20, 2012 9:24 pm

      Don’t you have spinning class or something you could be doing now?Guess what there are fat activists who are Certified Personal Trainers, Athletes and Nutritionists. You don’t know just by looking at someone what they eat or don’t eat or what they do for exercise or their health just by how much space they take up. However the person who developed HAES ™ is thin. If you don’t believe what’s spoken here, why waste your time in invading the site? I don’t get it.
      BTW, He didn’t poke, he was provoked….. And he’s absolutely right. It’s clinical professionals who are doing a disservice to both people who are fat and who are thin, by using weight as a gauge for health. We aren’t cars, people respond drastically different to the same external and internal stimuli. Whether it’s weight or any other health issues. I have a FB friend who just lost a family member to colon cancer at the age of 28. My maternal grandmother was diagnosed at 91 and lived another 7 1/2 years before dying. I’m just grateful whether it’s weight or health, the people are going to best help everyone with their health, are the medical professionals who do not buy into calories in vs calories out. I at my thinnest which was transient, long story, ate a minimum of 2,000 calories a day, worked out at an athletic level and could lose weight depending on the intensity of my workouts… As I said to the other troll, read my profile…

      • November 20, 2012 10:09 pm

        I’m sorry if people came to your site and made rude comments. I didn’t even know about that, to be honest. I also understand that it is painful and unjust for people to judge your character and lifestyle based on your physical appearance. Which is why I take offense to comments like, “Don’t you have spinning class or something you could be doing now?” How would you like it if I said, “Don’t you have a donut or something you should be eating now?” to an overweight or obese person?

        You’re free to believe whatever you want about weight loss (its your body, anyhow), but don’t be a hypocrite.

        • November 20, 2012 10:31 pm

          You can refer to this post. I set the tone for this when I responded to the attacks FCJ lobbed at us. I absolutely believe that everyone has the right to chose what is right for their body. How many of the people on FCJ get shit-face drunk every weekend or smoke or exceed the speed limit? I don’t give a shit as long as you aren’t affecting me or mine. But when you start insulting me because you disagree with my opinions, then I will fight fire with fire, absolutely. And for the past three days, I’ve read a torrent of abuse that ranges from the absurd to cruel to “wishing me dead.” As you can imagine, our readers aren’t thrilled with the situation, but I am trying to balance our Clear and Present Asshole rule with my desire to have rational, intelligent debates on the subject of weight loss and fat health.

          But at the same time, I personally try to follow a rule of not attacking someone who has not attacked me first. Some of our commenters aren’t quite as patient as that, and I don’t blame them one bit. I don’t give a shit if FCJ is a den of trolls, we have the right to defend ourselves.

          So while FCJ is up in arms about the so-called obesity epidemic, I’m fighting my own personal war against the vastly under-reported asshole epidemic, yourself not withstanding.


        • November 20, 2012 11:14 pm

          *potential trigger warning*
          Swole, you are assuming that I eat donuts just like all the trolls are assuming people ate bad food and don’t exercise to become a size, that you guys apparently find offensive. I had weight loss surgery 11 years ago that nearly killed me. I did become way into fitness about 2 1/2 years after my gastric bypass. I kept off my weight for a total of 6 years..The first 2 1/2 years going from a size 24 to a size 9/10(that took 10 months and NO, weight loss surgery is “not the easy way out”) which I was happy about before the complications hit. Then when I discovered a love of exercise when trying to tone and went down another 5 sizes that I managed to keep off for another 3 years.
          I had so many complications from my gastric bypass, that it had to be undone to save my life, 2 years ago, but I had experienced an enormous amount of weight regain due to meds even though I’ve been hospitalized medically 18 times after my gastric bypass with multiple gi bleeds which caused severe abdominal pain, and chronic vomiting which I still have. I have irreversible cognitive damage, I have neurological and severe health and severe chronic pain from severe long term nutritional deficiencies. I also though still like a gastric bypass patient, am very sensitive to oily and sugar foods, but I can get sick on any food.

          I still exercise when I can, and my ability to eat anything has been forever changed and anything resembling “normal” is just not there. I was but not actively promoted size acceptance and body diversity at my thinnest.

          You invited the exercise comment when you chose to comment on here. If you have better things to do whether it is exercising, shopping or developing a cure for cancer, there was no need for you to come here and comment. Pure and simple. Just don’t assume I don’t exercise or eat donuts because I’m a fat acceptance advocate and I don’t agree that Obesity in itself is a disease or that their should be clinical term for people who are bigger then other people. If people are going to treat people based upon what they think they are making unhealthy lifestyle choices, that disdain should be made for anyone. People should have to wear cards identifying what their health issues are, as millions of thin people have diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholestrol (things I’ve never had ever in my life regardless of weight, I have been) due to their lifestyle choices, however they aren’t considered aesthetically displeasing because we live in a society that’s conditioned from the time people are young to find adipose unattractive.

          Because I’m a weight loss surgery patient and body diversity promoter, I do support my weight loss surgery friends in the means that I defend people’s right to lose weight. It does not though belong on a fat acceptance board, and that’s why I normally never express this opinion. The only reason why you are getting it, is because you haven’t done your research. You don’t know why there multi-faceted reasons, that go into fat and size acceptance. It should be for no other reason that people deserve respect without preconceived notions, judgement, prejudice and bullying.

          Unless they are an ignorant, judgemental,prejudical asshole.. And those come in all sizes. I’ve seen fat bigots who are fat, as well as thin… As someone who if I can find a co-author due to my disabilities, I’ll blog about this, as well as write a book or 2. In the meantime, all people who support this site, are asking if you don’t buy it, don’t bash it.Maybe you have never been fat, or you have and you kept weight off and you know people who have, no one though has the right or can correctly assume just based upon sight what others have gone through.
          You do your own thing and we’ll do ours. There is no reason for cross invasions unless you put someone on the defense. I’m operating as I can’t speak for others on defense, not on the offense. I usually have better things to do then have to deal with haters, if someone can’t understand something, instead of hating it, try apathy. No one says you have to love everyone. The amount of energy expended to make people on here though, miserable, which will fail epically because we are used to living in a society that judges us, is an anathema.

          • November 21, 2012 6:30 am

            “You invited the exercise comment when you chose to comment on here”

            I was under the impression that body judgement was always unacceptable, whether it be in a doctor’s office or an internet forum. If you commented on my blog, would that make it acceptable for me to body shame you? Because it’s “my turf”?

            You’ve all made it painfully obvious that having any kind of reasonable discussion with your little cohort here is impossible, due to your completely illogical and rude behavior. I’m sorry you are so upset with the way fat is stigmatized in our society, but shaming athletic or average weight people won’t fix anything.

            I’m leaving this discussion. Enjoy your hypocrisy and bubble of self delusion.

            • Kala permalink
              November 21, 2012 11:56 am

              LOL, if you think this website is about shaming athletic or average weight people (remember the average person in the USA if you’re here, is overweight), then I’m not sure that you’ve read anything other than comments that came after people were already angry.

              And if you’re going to be so sassy about your flounce, why not respond to my comment to you with the full form explanation of why folks around here are so angry.

              You come here to this post, defending a bunch of trolls, not even knowing what they did that set the users of this site off, and then you’re upset when people tell you to fuck off. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out chica.

        • pyctsi permalink
          November 21, 2012 12:32 pm

          I’m afraid you will find that your general reputation has been tarnished by the company you keep. Although given your comment had no real content except that the company you keep is deliberately ignorant I don’t really understand why you made it.

          It’s kinda like the teacher at school who told me I had to keep out of the way of the guy who kicked and punched me because he was having a hard time, when he was the one who came looking for me. It was pointless and made it seem like I was going out of my way to look for trouble when all I was doing was standing up for myself, but it did mean I avoided doing anything other than reading in a classroom over lunch for my entire time in secondary school (wonder if that had any impact on my future health).

          If you want to learn a bit about us, then I’d suggest you read the previous posts and some of the responses and if you want to join in you word what you are saying very carefully until we get to know you, that’s a bit unfair but you associate with a bunch of guys who deliberately spent a serious amount of time having a go a people who have often been treated like shit for years and who then got upset when the people they were attacking weren’t polite and apologetic for taking up their time. Some of them seem even more upset when people responded to them with actual answers that proved they were wrong, using the same studies they quoted extracts from.

          If you are here to learn I suggest you do, if you are here to say that we should just ignore people who come into our spaces and harass us I’ll tell you what I should have told the teacher, if’s not my fault he’s having issues and I will not be blamed for him being a dick. This time I’m not gonna hide from someone who thinks that they should get a free pass for whatever reason.

          I would also suggest you chose your company more carefully in the future.

    • November 20, 2012 9:45 pm

      Um, yeah, it’s your people who came after us and started talking shit about us, then when I did the same a bunch of them started whining and complaining that I was unfairly picking on them.

      As far as contacting any member of the large contingent of scientists who publish research supporting this theory and engage in your science- and reason-based dialogue with them. I’ve interviewed Dr. Arya Sharma, Dr. Steven Blair, and Dr. Gerald Reaven (the man who discovered Reaven’s Syndrome, or Insulin Resistance), among many others. Where I’m not looking for information is a bunch of weightlifters who think they’re God’s gift to fatties. All I keep getting from them is the same mechanistic explanation of calories in, calories out, with some vague acknowledgement that it isn’t perfect. I wasn’t looking to have a scientific discussion, I was defending our site from an influx of trolls from your site. Get it straight before you start telling people how to behave.


      • tripleiwthcheese permalink
        November 21, 2012 9:57 am

        Shannon at least be honest with your story of how this all started. You posted an article and it was linked on FCJ. You came to FCJ to argue and were made fun of. Then you posted a blog entry directed at FCJ and particular members. Your butthurt is what drew all the attention to your site, FCJ didn’t come looking for a fight, you did.

        • November 21, 2012 10:12 am

          FCJers were already commenting on the post and when I went to FCJ to see the context of the link, I was also being mocked there as well. And when I mocked back, FCJ got butthurt and went on a trolling expedition. But it’s over today. I’m done patronizing the trolls and the morons and the people who can’t actually discuss the subject without resorting to Twinkie jokes. It’s like arguing with a bunch of junior high boys. It’s pretty pathetic. And the few attempts at science I have seen have been pathetic, to say the least. I just read another attempt to disprove me on FCJ which is laughable.

          Seriously atchka, I went to Pubmed and put ‘VLCD long term’ and limited the search to clinical trials; this took 10 seconds.

          Yeah, it took you 10 seconds to find four studies on VLCD that proves my point exactly.


          (If that doesn’t work, go to Figure 2 of this study).

          So you can go ahead and try to rewrite this episode however you like, but there’s an actual time-coded trail of comments that anyone can follow and see that it’s exactly the way I’m explaining it. You all came here looking for a fight. And when you couldn’t win on the science, you sent in a bunch of trolls to irritate and annoy. That phase is over, as is your participation in our blog.


    • November 20, 2012 9:45 pm

      By the way, it’s a nest of cockroaches, not wasps. I haven’t been stung, I’ve just been seriously grossed out.


      • Theresa permalink
        November 21, 2012 11:11 am

        Snappity snap.

    • Kala permalink
      November 20, 2012 10:39 pm

      I’m not sure why you are commenting on this swole, if you aren’t even aware of why a bunch of fitness redditors wound up on this website.

      Someone on FCJ posted a link to this website, and then they went on an offensive circlejerk making fun of Shannon and his site (I personally wonder if the derision would have been the same had the assumption not been that Shannon was a woman). Shannon, curmudgeonly as he can be, was irritated and decided to respond on the reddit, and then blog about it here. Personally, that’s not the decision I would have made, because I don’t think morons are worth the time as long as they stay where they are.

      But, that’s not what happened, and after Shannon responded we got an influx of trolls here, hurling a lot of insulting comments at authors and commenters on this website. No one insulted a single redditor, and not a single shit was given, until it started over there.

      And honey, it’s not a wasp’s nest, from what I can gather looking at the reddit, it’s a group of mostly average intellect dudebros with a fitness hobby that think they’re really witty, with a few outliers. I doubt a single one of them would have the guts to say to me in person, the insults that they’ve said to others here.

      So when you swoop in, totally ignorant of the situation and why people are so angry, in defense of your fellow fitness friends, don’t be surprised when regular users hurl insults your way. If you belong to a community and you want that community to have a good reputation, perhaps police your own members if they’re going to go about representing your group.

      • November 20, 2012 11:15 pm

        I’m curmudgeonly. Huh, I never thought of myself that way. But it fits. I’m a grandpa in waiting.


        • Kala permalink
          November 20, 2012 11:27 pm

          Well, don’t yell at me to get off your lawn at least.

          • November 20, 2012 11:31 pm

            I was planning on spending this time learning the true meaning of Christmas.


  2. November 20, 2012 9:11 pm

    Malcolm… they say you are what you eat. Eat a skinny person who’s an asshole. While I’m wholly respective of communities of likeminded individuals having their own community, don’t intrude on other people’s safe places. Feel free and check out my profile, it explains why I’m a fat acceptance advocate and it has pics, which explain much better then I could why people trying to invade here is so offensive as I’ve basically done everything but swallow a tapeworm to lose weight and I’m still fat
    …… I’m claiming asshole on this one, Shannon…

    • November 20, 2012 9:12 pm

      clarification, my profile on Facebook, while I don’t love having certain things public, it’s a lot easier to understand as they say a pic is worth a thousand words, and with my cognitive damage from everything I’ve done to lose weight, a thousand words from me is not a pretty sight…

  3. Jacques Chester permalink
    November 20, 2012 10:14 pm

    Well, it’s been whatever it is. Given that nobody is ever going to change anyone’s mind on the internet, I reckon I might hit the frog and toad.

    ps. WordPress has a blacklist-by-username/email/IP function which should block anyone you don’t like from coming back. Look in Settings / Discussion.

    • November 20, 2012 10:22 pm

      Jacques, believe me, I know. We’ve had troll attacks before on 4chan. But I prefer to moderate by hand because I don’t believe in extinguishing legitimate debate, only hatefulness. And FCJ is chock full o’ hate, my friend. I have no problem maintaining a place of discussion here, but we don’t tolerate assholes.


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