Let It Out
One of our regulars requested an area where people could vent about issues that affect us as fatties, as people, as frustrated bystanders. So, consider this the open thread to end all open threads.
Got an issue?
Drop it in below.
Rip it up.
Free your mind.
452 Comments
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Fierce, Freethinking Fatties 
I found your comment on a HuffPo article about the Victoria’s Secret skeleton ad. I was really happy to find a fat acceptance blogger who was accepting of all body types.
I run a blog, Fuck Yeah Skinny Chicks, which is a self esteem blog geared towards thin girls who don’t feel good about their thinness (I’m sure you’re aware that girls of all shapes and sizes are rarely accepting of their bodies!) I’ve tried to reach out to fat acceptance bloggers in the spirit of body acceptance but I’ve been met with a lot of rejection and even rudeness. As a thin woman, I feel excluded from the body acceptance movement even though a lot of my characteristics don’t fit the media ideal: I don’t have big boobs, I’m not blonde or white, etc.
So like I said, I’m really happy to find a fat acceptance blogger who is willing to include thin woman as well and defend them when people put them down as anorexic or unattractive. Thanks for being awesome and keep it up!
FYSC,
Welcome. I glanced through your site to make sure you were on the level and I liked what I saw. I don’t know a lot about what naturally thin people go through, but I do believe that genetics plays a powerful role in determining our size and shape. So, I understand that people make assumptions at both ends of the spectrum and so long as you are promoting health and not that other crap, then you’re welcome here as an ally. If you’d ever like to submit a guest post, feel free to contact me at atchka@hotmail.com. We’ll be happy to collaborate.
Peace,
Shannon
FYSC –
I’m really sorry that other body positive or fat acceptance websites have made you feel unwelcome. Intolerance begets intolerance. And I’d like to believe that intolerance is something we are working hard NOT to propitiate here on FFF.
For myself, I want a body diverse perspective for the world and that includes naturally thin. So, I’m thrilled to see your comment and I desperately hope that FFF continues in a vein that makes you feel welcome.
Eliz
Thanks, Eliz, that means a lot! 🙂 I’ll add FFF to my Google Reader and keep up to date with you guys.
Have you seen the cover of the Lane Bryant magalog?! It shows partially clad plus-sized women. They’re getting so many complaints because people don’t think fat naked women can be sexy. Check out their Facebook page
Thanks for mentioning this. I checked it out. Awesome!
Now that I know it’s OK to be fat, I don’t have to “hate” skinny chicks anymore! I feel bad for the rude and insensitive remarks I have made to thin girls before coming to this realization and hope I will become more sensitive to how our competitive, appearance-obsessed culture hurts us ALL.
FYSC, if you’re willing to stand by our sides and help in the fight against discrimination against EVERY body type (inc. fat), you’re welcome to join us as far as I’m concerned!
Uh its really not ok to eqate bodyshaming thin people to bodyshaming fat people. Its is not okay to talk about skinny peoples issues in an fa blog. It just isn’t. Thin women need to acknowledge their priveledge and see what they’re. Doing. To like your body is not wrong. To have problems with self image is not wrong. But to keep tqlking about skinny girls as if they’re. The ones with no power is not okay. Sorry about the …. i have ocd and a lovely . New compulsive thing wi4h putting . In the wrong places.
I couldn’t disagree more. Yes, thin and fat people face different issues, but body shaming and body dysmorphia affect (mostly) women of all sizes. I see no need to segregate communities.
Peace,
Shannon
I should have statex that this was my personal opinion and tbat i respect your opinion. I don’t agree with you, but this is a blog that chose to accept thin bodytalk so i respect that.
I really believe that when you start making blogs about fa or racism and white priveledge, you need to stop making it about thin people or white people, even tbough they also face discriminat on.
twe need to say that skinny people are pretty too. Skinny people have body images too, just to be though of as worthy to talk about our problems. I have a problem with any priveledged group hijacking conversations. I have no problem with calling out bodyshaming, but i came to this blog because of the ableism in other fa blogs.
why not make a body positivity blog instead? One where all women can discuss body issues? Again I respect that this is not my log and any policy should be respected. If not i should leave. Maybe i just misunderstood, because i see no problem with thin people commenting on fa blogs, just as long as it doesn’t become about them. But to say that thin women face the same issues as fat women do is not my opinion. They see themselves as fat and ugly and revolting sometimes. We are told that we are fat and revolting all the time. The insecurity of thin people are many times built upon fears of becoming fat. I feel that to come to an fa blog and start talking about the problems thin people face is silencing fat people.
Ann,
I don’t think comparing anyone to a Nazi is legitimate unless they’re actually committing genocide. Using the term “Nazi” to describe people who are being rude and thoughtless is unnecessary hyperbole. However, it sounds like you were overwhelmed by the moment and lashed out in a very uncertain way. I understand your frustration and you shouldn’t have to be treated like that in public. You could certainly call them body fascists, but I would refrain from breaking Godwin’s Law. I hope you have better experiences out there in the future.
Peace,
Shannon
Thank you for the reply. I hope I’m not flooding you. I have trouble with social niceties. I don’t really understand subtext. So i hope you will tell me if i am out of line. I hope you can seperate my comnent on one thing, and my comment on another. I am used to spaces where you analyze and explore thin priveledge and, maybe i ha e used the rules fro these sites on a site with other rules.
Hi folks:
I want to explore this feed but I’m one of those people that really does need a safe space, trigger warnings, and all that jazz due to my very lengthy, nasty history with anorexia nervosa. Which of the 8 feeds would be the most appropriate? Thanks!
Welcome Jerome. Try the Fat Acceptance Feed. It’s diet-talk free and follows the standard trigger warning protocol.
Welcome. I hope the rating system on FFFs has worked well for your situation.
Peace,
Shannon
Yeah i apologized, and i am perfectly aware that it was wrong. I have problems with rational thought when i become angry. I can’t think it through and i go off. But am i invalidated because i respond in anger?.Does it make it my fault? What can you say to someone that gets pissed at you being angry? I said nothing except that it is not okay to touch me without my permission at first. And i was angry. But anger is not something that i can control. the feeling i mean. What on earth do you say? Do you have to be diplomatic?
Hi Ann, to be honest, I really don’t have a problem with your reaction to “thin people problems” on fat blogs, including this one. Actually, I agree with you. There are plenty of safe places for thin people with body issues. There are places for people with eating disorders too. Sorry, but I agree with Ann. Everyone has problems, but a lot of mine are fat specific. A lot of problems and feelings that I have ONLY other fat people can relate to. No matter how confident and great I feel about myself and my fat body, I’m not going to open up and be honest about stuff as much when I know thin people are watching. Chalk it up to a lifetime of being judged. And yes I know it’s not PC or popular right now to feel this way, but there it is.
Hi Jerome,
I’m sorry if I’m talking out of turn, but if you’re looking for safe, fat-positive spaces, I’d like to put in a plug for one of my favorite blogs, Shakesville.
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/
It’s not a Fat Acceptance site per se, but a progressive, feminist blog, with a lot of great fat-positive content. Depending on your political orientation, it might not be your cup of tea at all.
However, it’s pretty much the ultimate on-line “safe space;” in addition to watching for diet talk, the moderators are careful to weed out racism, classism, homophobia, ableism, and any other such wankery.
Of course, I’m recommending Shakesville in ADDITION to the FA feed. ^_^
Simone, there are no turns. Or there are infinite turns. Whichever you prefer. 😉
Peace,
Shannon
I love the image for Fierce Tweets. It makes me laugh every time I see it, lol.
Thanks. I’m thinking I might change it from time to time to different fierce stereotypes. It’s a pretty fun image to play with. 🙂
Peace,
Shannon
So, I ran across this sentence in a thread about Jamie Oliver’s Food Revolution, and it was so…striking that I felt the need to share it with you.
“If Americans just won’t accept healthy criticism for their own good then just keep on drowning in a sea of fat!!!”
–Person on Inter Net
Oh my God you guys!!! Any minute now, we are going to merge into a collective sea of fat!!! And then we will flood America!!!
Just thought I’d give you a heads up. 😉
I saw that interview too, and I have to say that Jamie Oliver USED to be one of my fav tv chefs, now I wouldn’t watch him if you paid me. I have also ditched Cloris Leechman for her anti-fat comments, apparently we make her sick. From the looks of it, bitch needs a twinkie stuffed somewhere, take your pick. Might need to stuff a Ding Dong up Oliver also.
It’s been a really bad day, thanks for the place to vent.
Ya know, we should make a Fatty Power that asks for fat-hating celebs, because you know there’s plenty to pick from. You know, just so we know whose work to avoid.
Peace,
Shannon
I had to stop liking Anthony Bourdain AND Alton Brown, the hosts of two of my all time favorite shows (No Reservations and Good Eats) because they both had some anti-fat bull that they spouted. Bourdain spouted it, apparently, on his show with Ted Nugent and it’s on youtube. I wouldn’t recommend checking it out unless you have sanity points to spare.
at least bourdain admits he’s a preternaturally skinny fuck who smokes 2 packs a day…his whole stchick is fuck health its good. he admits to a love affair of epic proportions to all things pig.
ths alton brown i feel betrayed by. he was borderline fatty. now he looks like an old fashioned undertaker. ITs PAINFUL for me not to watch good eats…i like learning the science behind the food. but i hate him now. bourdain i can forgive he know he doesnt live like a saint. not alton….do you think i cant watch iron chef now? or is that enough of a collaberative effort?
I’m fat. And I’ve been told over and over by my city’s public health professionals that my children are fat (my son is labeled obese). Here’s fairly recent pictures of them: http://stampoff.blogspot.com/2010/07/blog-post.html
I’m wondering which of the blog feeds (cause damn there’s a LOT of blogs!!) would be best for me to start with.
I’m tired of hearing how my healthy, active, well fed (on healthy foods) kids are fat and obese but I don’t feel right telling these professionals to shove it, even politely. I also have a two month old who is strictly breast fed and I get the stink eye when we have a check up and she’s in the 97 percentile for weight (even though she’s also in the 90th percentile for height).
It would be nice to be able to share my frustrations (even if only in comments to blog posts) with other bloggers who are perhaps parents of small children. Tips on how to remain calm and still get my message of “my kids are healthy and I don’t appreciate you labeling them” across.
Ruth-
I’m trying to think of possible blogs that focus on family but I could only come up with two that KINDA fit what your looking for. Well Rounded Mama primarily deals with the intersection between birth politics and body politics but she also talks about parenting. And then there’s Family Feeding Dynamics which focuses on intuitive eating for kids.
If talking about our feeds, I would tell anyone new to start off with the Fat Acceptance subfeed. And then possibly branch out to the other subfeeds once you’ve got a feel for the basics of the movement.
Ruth, thank you for your comment. I will talk to the team about doing a post on this, discussing how parents should handle a situation like this. We’ll be in touch.
Peace,
Shannon
I know I’m late to this party, but…I highly recommend the Family Feeding Dynamics blog. Katja Rowell MD is FABULOUS and has a lot of posts about talking to your doctor’s pediatrician and other professionals that interact with your children (teachers, daycare workers, etc) who feel the need to tell kids how to eat. I think Katja has become more radical in the past few months as she hears more and more stories from parents of big kids and parents of small kids (apparently we’re all supposed to be “normal”).
I just found this site via an article/comment war on HuffPost, and was impressed by Shannon’s comments. While I don’t traditionally subscribe to a lot of the so-called “traditional” fat acceptance blogs, and have limited patience for political correctness, I am also on the lookout for safe spaces. While I would never, ever want to make someone upset, I also don’t want to spend time on a blog that wraps everything in New-Age speak and refuses honesty. I’d love to find a space that stands on the fine line between reassurance and tactful honesty, and I’m hoping this could be it.
CC,
Welcome, glad you’ve joined us. We like to think we are that middle ground between radical Fat Acceptance and mainstream society. We share many of the beliefs of our FA counterparts, but we welcome questions, 101 confusion, and challenges to our beliefs. We try to explore the issues as honestly and openly as we are capable of, and ask for help if our understanding is limited.
So, dive in, look around and I hope we can be that safe/non-PC space you’re looking for.
Peace,
Shannon
This may be the wrong place to ask, but does anyone know what has happened to the Zaftig Chicks? Their blog was awesome and I really miss it. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hi J,
This is the right place to ask (as there’s nothing off limits here). What happened to the Zaftig Chicks is a complete mystery. I tried emailing them, but have not heard back. I have heard rumors, however, that they spontaneously combusted in a fabulous display of feather boas and body glitter.
Peace,
Shannon
I was wondering what happened to them too. Guess we know what all that glitter on the floor was now.
My hunch is that they weren’t getting nearly the traffic as before, but who knows. Maybe they just got tired of the constant need for submissions or maybe their anonymity was breached. Who knows. I hope they come back, though.
Peace,
Shannon
Their blog is right here:
http://zaftigchicks.wordpress.com/
Given all the HuffPo-related activism on this site, I thought I’d share…
http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/09/29/why-are-there-naked-ladies-at-the-huffington-post/
Simone,
Interesting video. I’m going to email you so we can speak privately.
Peace,
Shannon
My name is Megan, and I’ve been overweight since puberty. I currently have a youtube channel where I post videos of myself singing and playing the piano, but I have stopped making videos lately, because of all the horrible comments I get about my weight. It upset me so much to see the horrible things people said to me that I thought about taking my youtube page down. I was pressured by my family and friends to turn off the comments function so that no one could bother me anymore, but I feel as if the fat-haters have won.
I have been wanting to make a video directed at the fat-haters in retaliation, to tell them that I won’t stand for the public humiliation I’ve been put through, but everyone tells me to just keep my mouth shut and “don’t feed the trolls.” Still, I feel as if the fat-haters have won.
What should I do? Should I stand up for myself, or should I just put my tail between my legs and walk away?
Megan
MuEpsilonGamma,
Everybody has their own tolerance level for trolls. I have a fairly high tolerance level and can tolerate their attention-getting antics fairly well. But I’m a guy and as such I receive less pressure from society in general about my weight. Women face more intense criticism (especially from men), so it’s not surprising that so many fat women cannot cope with such intense hatred.
What I would recommend is that you continue posting your videos, but censor your comments. Delete anything that is even remotely hateful. Do your thing and be proud, but know that there will always be some inconsiderate jackass who will try to take you down a notch. That person is probably just projecting their own self-loathing onto you. It’s easier to hate others than to hate yourself sometimes, ya know?
So, delete what you don’t like. You don’t HAVE to allow their comments to stay. I would post a video explaining your new policy, explaining why, and give the trolls the finger. What are they gonna do?
And if all else fails, you can call on me and I’ll be glad to hand the trolls their ass on a platter. 🙂
Hold onto your pride and keep being yourself. Do not let strangers destroy your confidence. You have a gorgeous voice and it would be a shame if you let some random asshole prevent you from sharing that with the world.
Good luck!
Peace,
Shannon
Hi, Megan – was just peering through this thread, and am watching some of your videos. Your voice is gorgeous! Keep posting videos, please!
Megan,
What Shannon and Laura said. Your voice is gorgeous. Your piano playing is too. Just remember that envy is never pretty. How do we know your detractors are envious? Because real musicians recognize chops when they hear it, and they don’t give a damn who that music is coming out of. Keep singing. It would be a waste to bottle up all that music inside you.
Wow, I may actually have beaten a lot of people in the Nonsensical Bullsh#t Olympics today … I got called a racist because I said I promoted Fat Acceptance. Apparently in some crazy bitch’s mind, fat acceptance equals trying to get black women to be fat and curvy so they won’t be as powerful as all “them skinny white women” and I ought to stop “trying to keep the sisters down.”
Then I got yelled at on a fairly well known feminist website because I apparently “hadn’t been educated enough” to post and was “lacking in my feminist 101 knowledge” and that was offensive … where in the f*ck am I supposed to LEARN this “feminist 101 knowledge” if not on feminist websites?
God bless FFF for being patient with the newbies … I’ve had enough of snotty, my-way-or-the-highway, myopic internet dictators for the rest of my life! What a day!
CC,
I completely understand. The whole “come back when you’re sufficiently educated” is such bullshit. It just reminds of the “get back in the kitchen” argument against feminism. Really? You only want educated people in your cause? Well, when I am sufficiently educated, what makes you think I want any part of your world?
Ugh.
And that is pretty fucked up about being a racist in FA. I’ve heard people complain that FA doesn’t take into account the higher obesity rates in minority groups, but that’s not because minorities are somehow inherently fatter… it’s that minorities are more likely to be poor and poverty and obesity are strongly related. That doesn’t mean you treat fat minorities differently, it means our economic system is broken and THAT needs fixing.
Well, hang in there. It’s not easy being right. 🙂
Peace,
Shannon
Just wanted to drop a quick note.
I just found your blog, and I am thrilled. I am a charmingly chubby fatchick in Chicago.
Everything written here is carbon copy in my brain.
My blog? A fun flitty misanthropic rant, mostly, but it’s no secret that I’m a fabulous fatty.
Thank you thank you for this wonderful place.
Keep up the good work.
And let me know if there’s anything I can do to help. From what I’ve read so far, you are so totally my kind of people.
Hello, my name is Rebecca. I’ve been reading FFF for a while but haven’t posted, but this whole place has been excellent for my self-esteem. I’ve hated myself a lot less in the few months that I’ve been reading it, and I’ve actually started standing up in real life when I see discrimination happening (not easy for a person with social phobia who is on the autism spectrum).
I just thought I’d bring this issue up, as it’s something that shocked me at the time and is still alarming to me now:
When I was eleven, I was diagnosed with severe ulcerative colitis. The only medication that worked at all to treat it was Prednisone, which made me gain weight like crazy. The doctors didn’t like me gaining weight so they kept taking me off of it, at which point I would become extremely ill, lose all the weight I had gained (once I lost seventy pounds in three months) and have to be put back on it. All this yoyoing screwed up my metabolism tremendously, which is a different story. I had a complete colectomy at 13, so it isn’t an issue now.
What was so shocking was that, when I was off the medication and usually so extremely ill that I couldn’t stand up on my own (I’d black out), people always complemented me on my appearance. “You’ve lost weight! You look so good!” Never mind the fact that if I had continued like that, I would (no doubt) have died. When I was on Prednisone and gaining weight but could otherwise function somewhat like a normal person (being able to walk is awesome), I got nothing but criticism and people talking about how it was “too bad” that the doctors put me on a medication that made me gain weight.
Bah! That was not supposed to be a reply to the last post.
Hi Rebecca,
Thanks for delurking. 🙂
I can’t tell you how touched I am by your comments. Although we hadn’t set out to explicitly improve the self-esteem of our readers, I’m glad that it has been a welcome side effect of our efforts. That is awesome that you are standing up against discrimination in spite of your social phobia. I know it’s not easy, but you are doing some powerful advocacy by speaking up and I hope that you appreciate the impact you are having on our culture by doing so.
Regarding Prednisone… yup, yup, yup. The weight gain side effect is well-known and it’s sad that your doctors considered the weight gain a worse state than the successful treatment of colitis. Did you even have problems with blood pressure, insulin resistance or any other weight-related issues or did they just say, “Getting fat is bad, we must stop it”? Because it reminds me of Carrie Fisher’s blog post (the one that inspired me to make her the patron saint of FFFs) about how her anti-depressants made her gain weight, but that her mental health was more important to her than looking like Princess Leia.
I mean, if the only side effect was weight gain, then fuck it, take the Prednisone and treat the colitis, ya know? Seems pretty straight-forward to me.
And I think your experience with the compliments while ill is a great illustration of all that is wrong with this country’s perception of weight and health. Adhering to the social norm of thin = beauty is more important to people than true health, not to mention the fact that we still believe that thin = healthy. It’s a twisted view and one we hope to correct.
Thanks for sharing and I hope you continue to grow stronger and more resolute in your understanding of health and your appreciation of your body.
Peace,
Shannon
(Posting this as a response to my own post so the message doesn’t get too thin because I hate that)
It seems inevitable that discovering a website in which people are generally of the opinion that people like you are actually people would boost your self-esteem.
I don’t actually remember all too well if there were other effects than simple weight gain; it’s been about eight years, and I was young at the time. There was no question whatsoever that any ill effects from taking it would be vastly overshadowed by the effects of not taking it and letting the disease go without any effective treatments. It is a nasty drug, though, and I had to take some truly massive doses of it, so it’s likely that even if they didn’t, some problems would have arisen. In retrospect, I should have just had the surgery earlier, but it was hard to tell back then.
I don’t think I’ll ever really appreciate my body, for the reasons that this post covers; I’ve been dealing with chronic illness since childhood, and I really wish I didn’t have to. But I daresay I’ll continue working on not hating myself because of it.
Anyway, what I originally posted to mention was this. I’m unsure if anyone here is aware of this particular issue yet, but reading this article rather infuriated me.
Apparently that second link only works if you remove the final slash from it, after .html. Sorry about that.
Rebecca,
I’m sick to death of these kind of stories. Ugh. It’s become so common for schools to do this that it’s almost becoming mundane at this point. But we will continue to fight against it.
Good luck with staying body positive. I know it’s not easy when it feels like your body betrays your health, but I bet your body is still capable of amazing things.
Peace,
Shannon
Welcome to Fierce Fatties, Von. I’m glad you found us. I’ll be sure to check out your blog.
As for help, feel free to comment because dialogue makes our community stronger, and if you ever want to do more you can always join us.
Peace,
Shannon
So, I just saw on the news that they’ve lowered the BMI cut-offs for lap band surgery. Apparently, they’re now recommending it for people who aren’t even obese!
How does that make you guys feel?
I’m sure it’s all about health and it has absolutely nothing to do with the company who makes lap bands wanting more money. Not at all.
You mean I might get thr WLS I always wanted? Goody goody! *sarcasm off*
It’s only a matter of time, though.
JDW – (love that) I’m waiting for the day when they start forcing us to get it whether we want it or not as part of their campaign to get everyone in America (and then the world!!! *insert evil laughter here*) “healthy”, even if it kills us.
The only good I can see coming of that is that more people will find out it’s not the miracle cure it’s touted to be and eventually it will go the way of the dodo. Yeah, wishful thinking, I know. I wish that would happen to all WLS, that it would be banned. It does so much more harm than good – if it were a drug, it would have been pulled from the market years ago.
I know, right?
Simone,
Did you notice these recommendations came out the day after that study saying that all fatties will day tomorrow? Planning a post on it this week. Also, planning on a large-scale crowd-sourcing review of the meta-analysis this study was based on. Also, major conflict of interest involved in the BMI reduction for lap band. The corporate/government greed on this one is amazing.
Peace,
Shannon
Nope, didn’t know all that. Fascinating.
I just caught like twenty seconds of the news story while in the airport. But what I saw was enough to make me think “Geez, FFF will have a field day with this…”
Shannon, I hope that isn’t “die tomorrow”, cuz if it is, that’s scary! It’s also wrong, cuz we’re all still here, so nyaah nyaah to those naysayers!
I have a story to tell you all that I can’t tell anyone else. I have to get this out without any more fear of judgement.
I began to gain weight when I was put on anti-depressants at age 6. First it was slow, then it was so fast that I acquired stretch marks that I still can’t get rid of. Needless to say, weight struggles have become a part of my life, and have had a very negative affect on my self-esteem.
I have wished so much that I could be one of the confident overweight people that I see around me. They seem so happy, like their weight isn’t even an issue in their lives. They are able to find mates, regardless of their appearance. Why do they have such high levels of self-esteem? I often wonder if my low self-esteem is caused by my weight or by my being bullied as a child, or even a combination of both.
The point I was getting to is that my horrible body image has caused me to not only develop social phobia, but also to hate myself to the point of several suicide attempts and frequent self-mutilation. I thought that I could ease my depression if I joined a small choir at my school. For the most part, it worked, but there was always the one lingering issue in the back of my mind that taints the experience even to this day: I am the only overweight person in that group.
No one seems to look down on me for it. I don’t know if they even notice. I’m usually able to hide my terrible lack of self-confidence and inferiority complex from the rest of the group, but there are times when I can’t. Just the other night, we all went on a little trip. Many of the members could not come, and many more left at the end of the first night because of one reason or the other. It was foolish of me, but I stayed. At the end of the night, it was only me, and six boys.
Almost as soon as the rest of the females had left, these boys began talking about them. They went on about how “hot” and “fine” the other girls were. They talked about the things they would do to them. I’ll give it to them that they were very drunk, and that boys will be boys, but it’s like they didn’t even realize I was standing right there. I found myself getting angry, depressed, self-conscious, everything at once. I asked them to stop and talk about something else, but they laughed it off as drunken antics. Eventually, I ran away, but my emotions overwhelmed me and I collapsed into a sobbing mess on the street.
Now, these boys are my friends. Of course they immediately followed after me and comforted me. They passed off my hysterical fit as just being drunk. Which I was, but they had no idea what was really going on. After a few minutes, they walked me back to camp, where they went right back to blabbering on about how they wanted to “eiffel tower” with the other girls. Once again, I asked them to talk about something else, once again, they laughed, and once again, I left camp.
On the way to the building where the bathrooms were, I called one of the girls in the group who was one of my closest friends. I sobbed into the phone about the things they were saying about every other girl except for me. I spilled my guts about how I felt about being the only “ugly, defective chick that no one wants.” Maybe it’s selfish to just want people to think I’m pretty. Maybe it’s stupid to draw my self-worth from what men think of my appearance. Maybe my expectations were too high for this group. I thought these boys were better than that, and I probably shouldn’t have.
I’m going to pretend like that night never happened. As far as I am concerned, it was just a bad nightmare. Everyone was so intoxicated that I’m sure they don’t remember it anyway, and I’m just fine with that. But I can’t stop thinking about it. I was so hurt, so… heartbroken, when I realized just how I measure up to the other girls in our group from our very own boys. Boys that I don’t particularly have any romantic feelings for, but if they were to ask me out, I would say yes to. All the horrible insecurities I had tried to suppress for the entire semester came flooding out in one of my worst breakdowns in quite awhile. Let us all be thankful I had no access to any sharp objects.
I have tried to talk to people about this. All the responses I got were “you shouldn’t have stayed. You should have gone home with the other girls.” “You shouldn’t have drank so much. It’s not ladylike to get drunk with a bunch of boys — then you just become one of the guys.” “Aren’t you bipolar? Shouldn’t you not even drink at all?” “You can’t expect them not to talk about girls, even if you’re right there.” And, “Maybe it’s not your weight. Maybe it’s your panicked breakdowns.” I was not hearing anything I wanted to hear. I know that I am less attractive than the other girls because I am overweight and they are not. And you know why? Because I stood there and listened to them talk just long enough to hear just how their little game worked. They would go down the list of the girls in the group, and discuss whether or not they would do that girl. They got to another friend of mine, who is quite tall and wears a size 8. I heard one guy say “Not unless she got in better shape.” I couldn’t believe my ears. That was the standard we were held to. I had to get even skinnier than that if I ever wanted to be seen as attractive by these boys. So yes, it was absolutely all about my weight, not my “panicked breakdowns” which only happen when I’m drunk or off my meds or ALMOST NEVER.
How do you do it? How do you learn to love yourself for who you are? How do you learn to accept your appearance and embrace it? How do you stop caring about what other people think and say about you? This is an anonymous cry for help. My dismal body image is ruining my life!
I’m so sorry you were hurt by your friends’ drunken and chauvinistic talk. You are a valuable person who deserves accepting friends and I hope you keep looking for them. I think I was one of the most overweight girls in both high school and college and I coped by concentrating on my studies and working. Eventually, I realized who my true friends were and I got through it. Somewhere along the way, the self-esteem improved. Perhaps the message is “fake it till you make it”. Definitely keep reading FA blogs & I recommend the Museum of Fat Love, too.
I’m so sorry you were so hurt by the callousness of others. I really feel for you and know what you are going through. I not sure I have any real solid answers to your questions, though –
The counselor in me wants to encourage you to find someone to talk to… someone on a professional level, someone you can trust to listen (and listen well!) and help you sort through these emotional times. If money is an issue, find someone in your local mental health clinic, school, Catholic Charities organization, or something similar.
It may sound like a cliche` but only you can change the way you feel about yourself.
Other people have their own judgments (right or wrong) and opinions (right or wrong) about you, and there is little you can do about them or their perceptions.
But as Karen said, in the meantime, Fake It until you Make It.
Because even if it’s merely the ‘appearance’ of confidence you send out, (while not quite feeling it inside yet) that’s what people will pick up on.
Pretend you’re an exceptional actress… able to pull off any part that’s thrown her way! Act the part you want to be. Here’s a big (((((hug))))) for you as well!
“Beauty” means many things to many people; You are a beautiful human being with feelings and desires and hopes and dreams. You deserve respect, and love, and happiness. Believe that. Expect that. Demand that.
Hey, I just wrote you probably the longest post in the history of FFFs. 🙂
http://fiercefatties.com/2010/12/10/on-midnight
My heart goes out to you and, as I said, if you ever need to talk, you can feel free to email me.
Peace,
Shannon
Oh honey I wish I had your email so I could talk to you. Actually, I wish you were right here in front of me so I could give you a big hug! I have been where you are. There is nothing harder than fighting the darkness in your own head *and* the thoughtlessness of others.
There are things we do not know until we learn about them, unfortunately self-esteem falls under this. When I was younger I believed people when they told me I was bad, I was a freak, I wasn’t lovable or worthy of friendship because I was different. Other people hurt me, so I shut down but I also hurt myself because I had not learned to value myself, and I put too much weight and power in whether others valued me.
I know every experience is unique but I also believe we all have our limit. We all reach a point where we no longer tolerate our lives the way they are and must strive and fight and change and *survive*. You are a survivor. There are people out there who care and people who can help. Most importantly, there is a spark of light inside you that will one day alight, catch flame and shine with an awesome brilliance. I have found mine and I’m working on building and protecting it. You must find yours; others cannot find it for you but we will celebrate it with you. Seek out the people, places and things in life that ‘bring out your shine.’
I wish you the absolute best because that is what you are and deserve.
*If any of this seem overly simplified it is because I had to try and fit a *HUGE* emotion into a politely small space – I could write 100 pages about this and how it made me feel and my own experience with self-esteem. I realized I needed to stick to a shorter note of encouragement, which seemed needed the most.
Hey Anonymous, I know EXACTLY how you feel! In my case having self esteem for being the way I am is mostly a case of “fake it till you make it”. But I will NOT give up and hope you won’t either.
This isn’t really big enough to rate a blog post, but I need to vent. I went to the surgical consult about having my enlarged thyroid removed, and my weight was brought up as a concern because of anesthesia. I told Dr M (the surgeon) that anesthesia isn’t a problem for me, I’ve had my gallbladder out, a hernia repair, and my stomach stapled and never had any problems with any of that. She then wanted to know why I had asked for a consult with an endocrinologist about my thyroid since my numbers were good. I told her I was concerned about it being enlarged because of a family history with thyroid cancer and other thyroid problems. She said I didn’t have any symptoms of hypothyroidism – never mind that cold weather didn’t use to bother me and now I’m cold all the time, even when the temp in the house is 76 degrees. She said that’s part of aging and my metabolism slowing down (but then turned around and said it’s possible for me to diet and lose weight, it’s calories in/out, and if you burn more calories than you take in, you’ll lose weight)*head desk*. Cognitive dissonance much? She says that my metabolism is slowing down because I’m getting older (no shit Sherlock, what was yer first fucking clue there?) but that it’s still possible to restrict calories and lose weight. I told her no way, been there done that, got the hat/t-shirt/poster/keychain and I ain’t doing it ever again, that my metabolism is so fucked up now from repeated dieting, diet drugs, and WLS that I’m done trying to mess with it any more.
JFC, I didn’t go to see her for a lecture about my weight, I went to see her about whether I needed to have my thyroid removed ASAP or could it wait a while. We finally decided it can wait at least another six months, she’ll order another ultrasound then and we’ll see if my thyroid is getting any bigger or staying the same size. Then we’ll decide if it has to come out.
I’m so sorry, Vesta, that’s awful. I hope everything works out, although it sounds like you’re fit as a fiddle, which is great. 🙂
Peace,
Shannon
I’ve recently started to read this blog, and really like it. It’s got a lot of heart. Therefore, I’ve gone back and read most of the older posts from this past year and have wanted to comment on a few of them. I just wonder in this world of “[such-and-such] is SO yesterday” if commenting on a months-old post is really the “done thing”.
On many blogs, I’ve commented on posts that were even a few days old, only to get no response ’cause everyone else has moved on to something newer. Of course no one is obligated to respond, but it’s nice to feel like I’m chatting with people rather than like I’m talking in an empty room.
Sometimes I feel like I have Attention Surfeit Disorder, if there is such a thing.
By the way, my husband and I listened the other day to your awesome interview of the notorious Meme Roth. Great ending, and it really cheered him up.
I don’t know about anyone else here, but I have subscribed to this page by email. I see every new post that goes up here. 🙂
This is quickly becoming a favorite page of mine. I love potpourri.
And welcome, MuEpsilonGamma. 😉
Peace,
Shannon
Thanks Mulberry. I’m glad you found us.
I read all comments and will respond to pretty much anything. So, all our posts are always open and I try to respond.
And thanks for the compliment on the MeMe interview. If you enjoyed that, be sure to listen to the Michael Karolchyk one (the Anti-Gym douche). At least MeMe is somewhat intelligent.
Peace,
Shannon
Something that’s really been getting to me is how, as soon as fat bashers get called out on their bullshit, they all seem to immediately play the victim, talking about how it’s ~~SO HORRIBLE~~ that the Political Correctness Police won’t accept them calling fat people “stinking bags of lard” (I saw that one today in the comments of a news article) when it’s really the fat people’s fault and they should stop being so ugly so they don’t get insulted! Why has ~telling the truth~ about these stinky lardbags become so stigmatized? Gosh!
Also, something that drives me nuts: sometimes people say that I may be fat but at least I’m not ~ugly~. Why does it MATTER if I’m ugly or not? Does being genetically endowed with a symmetrical face or something somehow make me a better, more virtuous person? Should people who are widely considered ugly be treated like crap? What if I were ugly by your standards?
End rant. Apologies if I come across as pissy, it’s because I am right now.
Rebecca,
No need to apologize. If you need to piss, this is the place. 🙂
But thank you for saying this, actually, because I’m dealing with this presently on Tumblr. There was this pro-ana blog bashing a fat woman, who posted a sexy picture online. Well, this one particular girl, Jayde, wrote this extremely hateful post calling me and others “fucking over the top dramatic cunts” and about the model, Maria, “When will people learn that the only reason this ISN’T beautiful is because SHE’D PROBABLY DIE DURING SEX ANYWAY FROM A MOTHER FUCKING HEART ATTACK.”
The response I gave was pretty measured, I simply corrected her assumptions about health and ignored the obscenity. Then she flooded my ask box calling me a “moronic bitch” and telling me that I misinterpreted her and demanding an apology. She was 17, so I responded with sarcasm and called her a spoiled child and a dumbass. Now I’m getting trolled, which is kinda fun. Haven’t been trolled this intensely before. And stupid trolls are the best.
You just can’t take this part seriously. You can’t. 99% of them wouldn’t say shit in public and if you confront them, they fold like metal chairs or go into an indecipherable, but impotent rage. But not everyone is up for confrontation, so it takes those of us who are capable of confrontation to teach them that it’s not appropriate. We’re kind of like fat hatred land mines. Yeah, you might be able to bully a few insecure people, but one day you’re gonna piss off the wrong fatty.
As for the second part, I think you’re right. A person is a person is a person and attractiveness does not determine value or whether you should respect them. Genetics should not determine your worth.
Now, go do whatever makes you happiest in the world and take a break from letting them get you down. They just aren’t worth the negative time.
Peace,
Shannon
Oho, that’s rich. A pro-ana who may be anorexic herself saying a fat person will die of a heart attack during sex. All hail Jayde, Queen of Denial, making an asp of herself.
Rebecca, fat haters can be the biggest whiners on the planet. They just don’t have the self-control to shut up and it’s always someone else’s fault.
I’m not sure this is the right place for something like this, but I’m starting to get bloody frustrated with the lack of information about fatness and (for lack of a better word) mental illness. I just got diagnosed with Asperger’s syndrome, and now I’m wondering about the interplay between some autistic traits and fatness.
For example, it’s common in autistics (especially people with Asperger’s syndrome or high-functioning autism) to have sensory issues where the taste or smell of something triggers a violent reaction – like, I literally will vomit at the smell of beans. I can’t have them in the house. If I can’t even be around beans, I can’t eat them, and doesn’t that limit my eating habits?
I want to see any kind of research on whether these sensory issues or other aspects of autism can affect fatness in people on the spectrum, and I can’t find a damn thing. I know there’s suggestions about a gluten-free diet being helpful, but um, I lack the self-control for that. XD I can’t believe I’m the first person to wonder about this link, damnit!!
Eating -options-, not eating -habits.- *bemoans lack of edit button*
I haven’t seen any research on a link between autism/Asperger’s and fatness either, but Meowser at fat-fu is posting some things she’s come up with on her own. She has Asperger’s and is fat, so that might be something interesting for you to read. You could probably contact her and compare notes too.
http://fatfu.wordpress.com/ <<< is the link for the blog where Meowser is posting, if you're interested.
I’m definitely a bit late to this, but I am a fat person on the autism spectrum (I mentioned it in my introduction post). I actually have some really profound sensory problems. Just from my experience with other people, I don’t think weight and autism spectrum disorders are generally correlated, though health and ASDs may well be. I’ll elaborate on this when I get home, but I need to go catch a bus now.
Fellow aspie here! Haven’t seen anything about Asperger’s and weight, buuuuut, some studies have shown a correlation between adhd and higher risk for eating disorders. At times it is frustrating to be a minority, atop a rarity, atop a unicorn. 😉
I personally do not subscribe to the gluten/caisen/whatever free theory. Unless you actually do have an allergy or intolerance to one of the above, it doesn’t seem to make a real difference. My aunt has a gluten allergy and its tough, gluten is in lots of things (so don’t blame yourself for lacking the discipline). If you think you might benefit, meet with a doctor or nutritionist first, so you can plan a short “trial period” with some actual things to look for. A better idea may be to mentally assess how you feel after eating…does it make your body feel good (not tired or gassy, for example)? That seems to be a easier
Sensory issues can make healthy eating a pain in the ass! Mostly I’m sensitive to noises, but I also don’t do spicy foods or plain water.
As I’ve been working on finding a balance, (post ed, and yes I also have adhd), I do try to incorporate some new foods. Usually I try to pick things close to what I already like. You may find that you prefer certain fruits or veggies frozen, steamed or fried instead of fresh (or vice versa). Buy a small quantity, and try it with other safe foods. You may want to try something more than one or revisit things on your no list.
Don’t force yourself to eat foods you hate. I take a vitamin just for a little extra insurance that I’m getting what I need.
Hope this helps
I had a fairly random question about plus size clothing:
My mother is fairly unable to find clothes that fit her well, as she’s proportioned in a way that I haven’t seen addressed in clothing. She’s my height at 5’7, and probably somewhere over 200lbs. What’s different is though although I’m wearing a size 8/10 pant, her legs are actually significantly thinner than mine, and the majority of her weight is in her abdominal region. So off the top of my head I could say maybe she’s a size M/L on the bottom, but an XXL on top.
Are there any vendors that actually address this kind of sizing issue? I know for her it’s very difficult to find any kind of pants that fit (and flattering is a whole other issue on top of fit). I was thinking maybe it makes more sense for her to just buy maybe maternity pants to get the whole legs/stomach ratio rate, but are there any other options out there other than getting things totally custom?
Thanks
(btw, I lurk around this blog but haven’t posted, in case you were wondering where I came from)
I have that apple shape and I’ve also sewn some of my own clothes (basic level). I’m not sure IF pants can be designed since to fit the waist of an apple -there will be a lot of baggy-ness underneath. What works for me is wearing skirts almost exclusively. Sometimes a pair of slacks with an elastic waist will work – buy a lower size to fit better around the hips, the elastic stretches to fit middle. Or, try men’s dockers or levi’s: there is no hip allowance so may be a better fit. I never tried maternity pants. Even when I was pregnant, I carried low, so what I had fit.
Thanks! I will keep this in mind.
I’m sorry to keep venting here, but I don’t think there’s another space that would understand.
I have a friend who grew up wanting to be an actress, and she developed some frankly fucked-up attitudes about food. She had a bad case of body dysmorphia, and frankly if she didn’t become anorexic I will be stunned. I spoke up when she announced she ‘had’ to lose weight to be an actress, because that was her life’s dream and all that, and she basically told me I didn’t know what I was talking about and how I’d become stuck in a rut by being content to be fat. We made up that quarrel eventually and remained friends, if more distant friends.
She did lose about sixty pounds, and has kept it off for 7 months or so. I (wo)manned up and congratulated her; she was happier and more self-assured. But the whole time, she’s had GI problems, apparently. She just admitted to me today that she’s been diagnosed with IBS, and she suffers constantly from a distended stomach, as well as things like having low blood platelets and constant bloating & stomach pain. She’s scared to death she may have some kind of blood disease or a permanent GI problem.
She wrote in her journal today that basically she’d rather be fat, and flat out said “Don’t do what I did. I didn’t do this for my health, I did this to be pretty and beautiful and loved.”
I’m furious. This is what happens when the diet and fashion industries are allowed to publish their unfiltered poison. This is what happens when the pressure is so immense to fit a cookie-cutter figure, to conform to societal mores even when your genetics don’t support it. I’m glad she’s come to these realizations before I lost her, but I’m so mad that it got this far. I’m also mad at myself for having my first thought be “Man, I hate being right.” That shouldn’t matter. What matters is getting her healthy, even if it’s not at the size 6 she’s starved herself into being.
CC,
I’m glad your friend saw the light, although I wish it were not at the expense of her health. Sadly, I think many people do great damage when they pursue thinness, but that damage is not always as immediate and clear-cut as it is in the case of your friend. I wish her all the best and I hope she is able to resolve her health issues.
Peace,
Shannon
Just need to gripe… on the freaking 15th “Dear Abby” published a column full of the usual fat hating crap… but could she publish even a SINGLE LETTER that doesn’t support the “fat is the most horrible thing to be” view?
The really enraging thing is, the letters were published as an apology to being too soft on fat people in a column from two months ago… her “too soft” was reinforcing that there is an obesity epidemic, but acknowledging that it is more complicated than just a lazy attitude, and that fat people know they’re fat and don’t need to be reminded.
Seriously? THAT is considered being “too soft” on the topic now? Why do I suspect that even if I wait six months she’ll never acknowledge any of the links to more recent scientific information about weight? Oh thats right, because she never effing does… just goes on telling people how distressing it is that fat people exist and aren’t being shamed enough.
Gah.
And I should have kept reading, because I missed the part at the end for where she shills for a “tried and true program for weight loss” — Overeaters Anonymous.
Because of course, she can say it’s “more complicated”, but by that apparently she means that fatties sit around stuffing their f*ing faces all day. Just can’t stop eating, in fact it’s an addiction and needs a twelve step program!
*cue incoherent screaming of rage*
Oh yeah, I read that, and I wrote her a letter telling her she needs to educate herself about the TRUTH of that non-existent “obesity epidemic” and gave her a bunch of links to read. Not that she’ll read them, she’s happier being a fatphobic shill for the weight loss industry. When it comes to Dear Abby and anything to do with fat people, there aren’t enough Sanity Watchers Points to make it worthwhile reading her column.
Yeah you’d think by now I’d have stopped reading her column since most of the time her “advice” falls into three categories – wrong, so obvious that the person writing the letter had to be doing it just to get published because a hamster would know what to do in that situation, and classist/privileged. By which I mean, her entire answer could be rewritten as “Well why don’t you just go to therapy that of course you can afford because who can’t afford several hundred dollar sessions a couple times a week?”
I probably should add her to the discard pile along with all the other stuff I’ve had to stop reading because I just couldn’t take the virulent hateful bile they spread, or the constant cute little “teehee hey ya’ll, fat is like bad and all teehee omg I ate a grain of sugar and now my ass is THE SIZE OF TEXAS teehee I’m so bad!” crap they do. Which really sucked, because a couple of them had good recipes and craft patterns on them.
I’d like to advertise (whore out) this website. I created this post, and I’d just like all of you to see it. 🙂
http://www.myyearbook.com/?mysession=bWFnX3d3eWRfY29tbWVudCZ3aWQ9MzcyMDYwMQ==
(apologies for my skanky picture)
I hope you don’t mind me posting here. I am looking for advice on how to help a friend of mine and this seemed like a good place to go. He is very large, and is seriously considering weight loss surgery. Due to stuff I’ve read here and other blogs, I am against him doing this. He already has a strange chronic pain disability that he’s having trouble getting diagnosed and it seems foolish to me for him to pay lots of money for another disability that may not even help with the original one. But I suspect that his real reason for wanting it is not to deal with his physical issues, but so that girls will like him. I have pointed out that it makes no sense to mangle his digestive system in order to have other people like him, but he does not listen to me. And also that he would still be the same person afterward. I have also pointed him to some information about the dangers and complications of weight loss surgery, and again he does not listen.
I am aware that probably nothing I can do will convince him. He has never listened to me before, even though I have been through a lot of the same feelings. It helps to read these blogs, though.
Also, this is my first time commenting here. Yay! I really respect all of you.
Welcome Cayora!
Can you at least persuade your friend to get his chronic pain seen to first? I mean, let’s say he has weight loss surgery and loses lots of weight and the women come flocking around. If he’s in pain, how much can he enjoy them? Let him investigate the pain first; it’s not impossible that treating it might affect his weight one way or the other.
You won’t get far if you try to appeal to common sense “WLS could kill you faster than fat”, but you might get somewhere if you appeal to his ego “get control of your chronic pain, then you can get through surgery better and maybe have the kind of life you want”. It may be that he won’t listen to you anyway, but you can try.
Hi Cayora,
My thoughts & prayers go out to your friend, for his protection from the drooling, greedy medical establishment who have convinced him that digestive mutilation is The Answer. I ran into an old friend over at the Y pool last week who I hadn’t seen in almost a year. She used to be one of the most fat-accepting people I knew, seemed to have a great attitude about herself, but now she has also succumbed. She has been in a couple of bad accidents and has chronic pain due to her injuries. Her greedy drooling doctors have convinced her that the only way to cope with the pain is to exercise and she can only keep doing that if she gets WLS! Plus she said “at the rate I’m going, I’ll end up in a wheelchair and I can’t burden my kids with having to take care of me in a wheelchair at that size!” BTW she also said she got weighed for the first time in years, and was HORRIFIED to see what her weight had gone up to…about 100 lbs. less than me! (and incidentally a couple months ago a greedy drooling doctor tried to push WLS on me as treatment for a cold–you see, I suffer more from colds and sore throats than thin people because of all this fat around my neck!) Anyway I’m just praying she will come to her senses before they do any more damage to her!
So on Tuesday I moved into a house near my university campus with nine other people, because my commute was killing me (Can’t drive, had to take the bus at 6:50 in the morning, got back home at around 5:30. I have narcolepsy, and was having to sleep on the floor in school libraries). I have serious problems with social phobia and not knowing how the hell to deal with people (whee, Asperger’s!), but it was the only affordable option and I just could not handle the commute anymore, so here I am.
Since then, I have been surviving on a diet consisting almost entirely of sunflower seeds and the box of Special K I have in my room. This is partly because the stress of moving out of my parents’ house for the first time ever and stress always makes me even more reclusive than usual, but there is definitely a large factor here that consists of me thinking “if I ever go down to the kitchen to get something to eat, my housemates will think I’m a pig who never ever stops eating.”
I’m pretty sure that I’ve internalized fat hatred even more than I thought I had. It seems likely that I’m (mis-)handling this situation in a way that the vast majority of fat people wouldn’t, but I’m having a pretty hard time with this.
tl;dr I’m afraid I might be developing an eating disorder or something.
Your fears are perfectly understandable. In your shared house, is there only one refrigerator? Does everyone chip in for food, or do you each buy your own groceries and have your own assigned shelves in the cupboards/refrigerator for storage? If you’re buying your own groceries, you don’t have to worry what anyone thinks about what you’re eating, how much you’re eating, or when you’re eating it – you paid for it, it’s yours to do with as you please.
If everyone is chipping in on the grocery bill for the whole house, you’re still entitled to eat meals. Again, I doubt that everyone has the same schedule, so you’re all probably not cooking one huge communal meal for breakfast, or lunch, or supper and eating those meals together. If everyone has contributed money to the grocery fund and everyone has agreed about what goes on the grocery list, then you can eat whatever’s in the kitchen – you helped pay for it. You know you’re not going to eat it all and I imagine your roommates know the same thing. Unless someone has cooked something and labeled the leftovers as theirs, I would think anything in the refrigerator is fair game, but it wouldn’t hurt to ask everyone else, just to be sure (and let them know how you want your leftovers treated – are they yours alone, or are they fair game for anyone who wants them). These are things that should have been worked out when you all moved in together, but sometimes get overlooked in the rush of getting settled in and starting classes, etc.
I hope this helps 🙂
Hi Rislaja,
I wish you the best in your new situation. I can only imagine how scary this must be for you, your first experience with all these strangers and so on.
Piggybacking on Vesta’s comments: If you guys DON’T each buy your own groceries, I would highly recommend doing that instead of all chipping in together. Having lived with many different roommates over the years, I’ve found that things work better that way. In the words of one of my favorite bands, Collective Soul, “This precious declaration reads, what’s yours is yours and mine you leave alone!” And I’d say that is the case for more than just food. Also your TIME– do your best to make friends with others outside of your house and don’t pal around too much with your roomies. Don’t be totally aloof from them, but don’t hang with them often. Roommate arrangements work best when set up from the beginning as “business arrangements”.
Frustration of the moment:
I was at Sea World yesterday with family and my sister and I were talking. In the conversation, it came out that my step-mother told my sister than I can do better than my GF. Let me make it clear, my step-mother has met my GF once and they didn’t spend a lot of time together. My step-mother doesn’t even KNOW her.
“Kevin can do better,” in this situation, really means that I can get someone thinner. I was so pissed… you have no idea. As if the only way to determine the value of my GF was on her size! It has nothing to do with personality, work ethic, sense of humor, values, or any of the hundreds of other great things. It all boils down to her weight. I could get someone thin… and, of course, someone thin is always going to be better than someone not thin.
I am not close with my step-mother and almost never see her. So it isn’t like her opinion will change anything in my life. But it drove me crazy. I know my step-mother didn’t approve of my ex-GF. My ex was also a fat woman. I’m not a fat-admirer in the normal sense (that I am strictly attracted to bigger women) but I certainly don’t have a problem with it and even like it. I believe there are many other things that are more important in a relationship than weight. Weight and looks can and will change… basing a relationship solely on those is a mistake.
Anyway… weight does not equal value! — Unless you’re talking about gold… and then more is better. 😉
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuup. It doesn’t even matter if the guy is fat, either. Fat women just aren’t supposed to be loved, dammit. Why would you set your standards so low, Kevin? Why? It’s ridiculous and infuriating, and it’s something that the woman picks up on as well (eventually). It’s sad that we can’t just respect love for what it is: a mutual feeling that develops between two people for God-only-knows what reason. Instead, it’s all about picking the “right” person. Fuck that. Just keep on loving her, Kev.
Peace,
Shannon
Kevin, you are so awesome for getting angry at perpetrators, such as your stepmother, but remaining steadfast to your GF and not internalizing any of their BS and letting it cause you to second-guess how you feel about your GF!!!
‘ “Kevin can do better,” in this situation, really means that I can get someone thinner. I was so pissed… you have no idea.’
YES, I DO HAVE AN IDEA.
This has been said about me to a boyfriend or two.
It’s been said about me back when I weighed 160 pounds (I am of medium height.)
It’s been elaborated on by a married friend of a guy I was dating. In a letter of at least 10 pages. (Hey, does anyone remember “letters”, an ancient method of communication requiring pen and paper and a stamp?)
It’s been implied by my mother on several occasions.
It’s good that your stepmother didn’t compare your GF to some of the larger denizens at Sea World. I’m being a bit ironic here, but there are folks who wouldn’t hesitate to say such things, and they’re not all strangers on the internet.
If someone said that about my husband, I’d say, no, he couldn’t get better. He could get thinner, richer, younger, but better? NO. WAY.
Most people on this blog understand exactly what you’re talking about. I envision legions of readers nodding hard enough to dislocate their eyeballs.
Well, yeah, I guess the people on here do understand how pissed I was/am. It is just so amazingly infuriating that she would be judged on that part of her alone.
I haven’t told her about that comment. I can’t tell her. It would kill her inside. She is already stressed about my family and them not liking her because of her weight. I don’t need to let her know that the fear is justified at least with my step-mother. It scares me because I want to protect her from that.
Pardon my French, but fuck my step-mother. And fuck everyone else who thinks “thinner” is the same thing as “better.”
The important thing, Kevin, is that you are on her side. You may say, “Well, of course I am!”, but in my case it’s something I can never take for granted. No, don’t tell her about that stupid remark. But if you are ever in a situation where your girlfriend and stepmother are at the same event, try to make sure the two of them are never alone together. Enlist your sister’s help if necessary. I don’t know about your stepmother, but I’ve met people who can be quite nasty when there are no witnesses.
Oh, and not to double-post responses, but it should be said that my sister is awesome. She told me about this while we were alone on a ride that no one else wanted to ride. And she also told me that my step-mother needs to get to know my GF. My sister went on to tell me how she likes my GF, how my GF is fun to hang out with, easy to talk to and hang out with, and a bunch of those stuff. I know my sister isn’t just blowing smoke. I think she really likes my GF. She has definitely been the only one who asks me to hang out with the both of us.
So at least one person is on my side and can see past it. And at least one person in my family is willing to see what I see in her and not ask, “why is he with her?”
I usually don’t see fat hate on my newsfeed so this was an unwelcome surprise:
“morbidly obese people are gross…and simply disgusting while eating! Save the BK for the car fatty!”
not anyone close enough to me to warrant engaging in FA dialogue. but it still makes me rage >:/
Katherine,
What was the site? I’ll remove it immediately. Was it on our feed?
Peace,
Shannon
Oh, it was on my own private FB feed. Should have clarified—but I was typing with a drying manicure. 😉
What kills me is that I have seen people of all sizes with terrible table manners that *are* truly disgusting to watch eat. But it has nothing to do with their size and everything to do with, well, everything else.
Possible replies:
My car doesn’t eat BK – it prefers gasoline.
Stay indoors and you won’t have to see morbidly obese people. What could be simpler?
I’m mostly a lurker around here, but I’ve reached the end of my tether and just had to vent somewhere to people who will understand.
In the last 6 months, my workplace has become an incredibly toxic place for me. A co-worker joined a gym to lose weight around that time, and while I’m really glad that she’s happy with her results, I can’t stand her constant talk about what she’s “not allowed” to eat. Her personal trainer has got her on a VERY restricted diet. She’s not an adventurous eater to begin with, so what she will actually eat of the things she’s “allowed” to eat is very limited. To top it off, she’s “allowed” one “cheat” meal per week – usually a weekday lunch when we all go and get food together – and when she “cheats”, she eats about 5 times as much as she would on a diet meal.
Everyone talks about how “good” she is for sticking to her diet and exercise plan, how “good” she is for “resisting” the plates of cookies that my boss sometimes puts out for everyone to share. It seems like everyone is constantly talking about “good” food and “bad” food, as if food can have morality, or how “bad” they are for eating cookies. I’m fat, newish to HAES and trying my best to figure out the intuitive eating thing and all this talk is driving me nuts. It has reached the point that I don’t want to eat with my co-workers any more, especially since she looks at what everyone else is eating with envy.
My workplace has not been a diet-talk-free-zone (my boss has been on a diet the whole 11 years I’ve worked here), but it was never as bad as this. I feel like my food choices are being judged sometimes. Everyone knows that I think differently about diets and weight-loss than they do, but they don’t seem to understand what all the diet talk is doing to me. I can’t easily say anything without creating animosity, so I just suffer in silence and/or try to change the subject.
I like this woman. I think she’s made a really positive step for herself health-wise by joining a gym (before she started to exercise, she was marginally mobile, and now she’s much fitter and stronger and can walk long distances – a remarkable transformation). She’s not responsible for the actions and words of the rest of my co-workers. Despite that, I find myself resenting her for effecting this change in the office, just by being on a diet. The one saving grace is that she’s going away on a work trip for 4 weeks, so hopefully things will be better for a while.
I apologize for the wall of text and semi-coherent rambling. It feels good to get it out!
Hey calantheliadon,
Wow… that’s a lot to have to cope with. And don’t worry about length, this is exactly what Let It Out is for.
First of all, if you feel like you’re peace of mind is at risk, then don’t eat lunch with these people for a few days. Go out and get away from their discussion. If you want to avoid the discussion for the moment, just make up an excuse, like you have a friend who’s sick and you want to visit him on your lunch break. You don’t have to listen to physically listen to them during the time in which you are supposed to be enjoying your meal.
Maybe they’re looking at your plate and maybe they’re not, but all the talk about good and bad foods can often go hand-in-hand with judgment on others’ plates. It’s hard not to feel paranoid about what they must think of your “bad” choices. Just get out on your own so that you can have a peaceful moment alone. I loved eating alone at some of the places I worked. It gave me time to gather myself for the rest of the day and I often enjoy quiet more than chatter.
So, make sure your own peace of mind is not put at risk here first and foremost.
Beyond that, it’s all dependent upon what you’re comfortable with. Speaking to a group is a bad idea, especially for the “enlightened dieter.” Talking to them is like fighting a hydra: each opinion you sever is replaced by two equally incorrect opinions. They’ll just wear you down.
But if you’re friends with this woman and you like her, then if you ever have a moment for a one-on-one conversation, you could at least bring up how uncomfortable all the diet talk makes you. I mean, most people are pretty decent and aren’t really aware of how diet talk can create anxiety in those with a lifetime of failed diets behind them. So, level with her, one-on-one, and see if she might not help tone down the rhetoric.
After that, it’s up to you as to whether you’re comfortable sharing info about HAES with her. You could even lend her a copy of “Health at Every Size,” the dietary portion of which would appeal very much to someone struggling with restriction (aka everyone). And if the exercise has helped her, then she will enjoy the sections on fitness and moving your body.
And, of course, the section on self-acceptance is something everybody needs to read.
I hope this helps, though it’s obviously something you have to play by ear and only you know exactly how to handle any situation. The fact that you’ve kept this in so long shows that you’re strong enough to deal with anything.
Hang in there and let us know how things go. 🙂
Peace,
Shannon
Have to vent. I really enjoy Huffington Post’s journalism on most things, but then they post things like this – Should Obese Children Be Taken From Their Parents?
To say I am livid is an understatement. Fucking thoughtless, brainless, obnoxious, body-policing, self-righteous arrogant moron … if I recall, this man has a history of hateful articles being published. Does anyone have a contact point at HuffPo where I can write and tell them how utterly offensive this kind of BULLSHIT is?
I saw that article too and I wanted to scream!!
Thanks for the tip. That was terrible. I seriously could not control my anger.
Peace,
Shannon
CC – probably wouldn’t matter what you wrote (or to whom) regarding Huffpo and their crap. HuffPo is no longer a truly legitimate news outlet for slightly-left-leaning or progressive people interested in the world around them. It’s now more of a high brow (relatively speaking, of course) version of TMZ or Inside Hollywood.
It used to be that about 25% of their articles were merely condensed versions of stories posted somewhere else, and to read the entire thing one had to click on the “read the whole story here” link. That link would often bring you to another legit news paper or blog or online magazine, etc. Now?
Now about 80% of their articles consist of a sensationalized headline, with one short paragraph, and then the link to read the whole thing somewhere else, like:
The Daily Mail, or The Sun, The National Enquirer, TMZ, Inside Hollywood, and other gossip and grocery store check-out line RAGS. It really is a shame….
“Should Obese Children Be Taken from Their Parents?” Answer: no!
Hi guys. A friend just posted this image on her Facebook wall: http://imgur.com/qeRZ0. This is how I responded:
“I agree with the metaphorical premise of this picture (that some people are greedy while others are impoverished), but I strongly object to the images used to express that premise.
First of all, the images of fat people are being used as an analogy for greed. But do you know that weight, in many developed Western countries, is strongly correlated with poverty? Poor people are *much* more likely to be fat than rich people; this occurs for various reasons, including less access to high-quality, nutritious foods, stress hormones, less access to medical care, available sleeping time, less access to safe places to exercise and so on, almost certainly including factors we don’t know about yet. And then there are the rich, who are more likely to be better off in all of these factors and are more likely to be thin. And overall, which, rich or poor, do you think are usually the greedy ones?
Also, I find the whole phenomenon of pictures of (headless) fat people and all the shaming that comes with it extremely distasteful. Nobody knows why these people are fat. They simply made the mistake of being fat in public and people took their pictures and assumed that they were fat because they were gluttonous or greedy or lazy or some other negative quality…but nobody knows this, it is just an assumption. You don’t know the reasons for *anyone’s* weight, seriously. I am fat, and people assume that this is because I eat too much. But they don’t know if I do, and they certainly don’t know that my internal organs have been persistently assaulted by my immune system for the last ten years, or that I was on massive doses of steroids (which cause weight gain) for several years. They don’t know that I struggle with eating disorder tendencies. They just assume that they know why I am fat, and they assume that I am The Problem and that it is okay to mistreat me.
So do stigma like this image help anything, by blaming a demographic which has strong correlations with poverty for the abject poverty of another group based on blatant assumptions about what caused their body size, instead of targeting the manipulative bastards behind the scenes who cause gross income inequalities and actually compromise poor people’s access to food by manipulating wealth to their own ends?”
Anything obvious I left out? I should note that this friend does tend to be very receptive to the things I say and willing to change her mind on things.
Rislaja, I think your response was right on target. All points covered nicely.
And as soon as I laid eyes on that image you linked to, I was offended also — for exactly the same reasons. Good job!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/28/miss-cicciona-pageant-plus-size-beauty_n_908800.html#s315566
Check out all the hate coming from the posters on this article. It actually made me feel so bad for the contestants, and bad for the people leaving them since they are full of hatred and ignorance.
Thanks Heather. I’m on it. 🙂
Peace,
Shannon
Thus with my magical hate-killing pen I have eliminated that fat hatred and judgement. I’ll keep an eye on it throughout the day. Thanks for the heads up. 🙂
Peace,
Shannon
And if they lower the cutoff point for obesity another few BMI points like they did in the late 1990s, then 85+% of us could be fat or obese without gaining a pound! Almost magical, isn’t it?
Randomly: I feel weird getting a fondness for Khloe Kardashian. Still, when I found out she didn’t want to keep promoting diet pills because she had to starve herself for it, it made her annoying score go down a few points. A lot of people do forget that so-called “pretty” people can still be stigmatized, and while it’s definitely not like Khloe Kardashian has all the world’s problems, I still approve when anyone says no to buying into the diet machine.
An entirely different matter: Outrage over rhyming diet picture book for kids … basically ‘starve yourself starting at age 4!’
Honestly, sometimes I just want to give up. Between this shit and the comments.
Here we go again! AOL/Huffington Post at it’s biased and bigoted best!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/11/normalizing-obesity_n_956111.html
Of course, the few comments there already are ignorantly approving of this ‘article / study’ — except for one person so far (me) who is trying to use logic and critical thinking skills to cut through this article’s bullshit. It’s pretty much falling on deaf ears (eyes) which is infuriating, as usual….
I am about to embark on either a pleasant adventure, or a Fattie’s “nightmare”….
My sister-in-law and I are going to a local “Fitness & Aquatic Center”…. to take advantage of a September 2-for1 membership coupon. Yes, we’re going to get the tour, and if all is to our liking, and there are no “attitude issues” about two fatties joining their center (so we can continue our own personal water-aerobics routine we started this summer) we will be signing on for a 3-month 2-for-1 membership.
Who knows, I may even take advantage of the different organized pool-exercise classes they have all during the week. But right now, Kim and I are only interested in getting back in a pool and “working it” for an hour or so at least three times a week. The sauna and hot spa is something we are looking forward to as well.
Since this place caters mostly to seniors and women (with separate pool, sauna and hot spa areas and entrances just for women), I’m hoping they have nice, accepting attitudes for large people who might not be ready to jump on machines and work out like gym rats… I’ll let you know how it goes.
My gut feeling is that since it caters to seniors and women, it will probably be comfortable for fatties as well. You’ll obviously run into the occasional bigot, but you can’t completely escape them. But water-based exercise is great, especially for fatties, and especially for those who hate exercise. Definitely give it three months and see if you acclimate well to the environment. Once you find a comfortable home for fitness, you’ll be so relieved! Good luck, Fab! And let us know how it goes.
Peace,
Shannon
Now the ” award winning chef -AND- nutritionist ” from The Biggest Loser is giving out dieting tips and sample menus on Huffington Post. “Eat like a Biggest Loser!”
Hurry!! Get there before you miss out on this! She CURED DIABETES! She CURED high blood pressure – in only THREE DAYS!!
Holy shit! Why didn’t we know how to do this??
Here’s my reply (that I’m sure will never see the light of day) to this BS article :
[[[ Did you know that one out of every four Biggest Loser contestants has diabetes when they arrive on the Ranch? They ALL leave without it! You may also have heard on this season’s premiere episode when Joe Mitchell reported that he’d been taking blood pressure medication for two-and-half years and was able to stop taking his meds after only three days at the Ranch! It has everything to do with the BL eating and fitness plan.]]]
I know you won’t print this… but that (above) is the biggest crock o’ shite ever. You CURED diabetes in just a few weeks? Blood pressure issue CURED – in 3 days! Wow. Medical miracles! Imagine that.
They claim anywhere from 30-60% of Americans are overweight/obese, yet the diabetes rate for Americans is 8.3% according to the American Diabetes Association. Now how does that work out? Apparently diabetes is not *significantly* more prevalent amongst obese people, otherwise the rate would be *at least* 30%, not 8.3%.
Stick to abusing, demeaning, and stigmatizing fat people on TV for ratings… that’s about the only thing Biggest Loser is good for.
I’ll check it out, Fab. Yesterday I was policing the thread on Chris Christie’s comments about his weight. I’m exhausted!
Peace,
Shannon
Okay, here’s my comment. I kept it as clean as possible to ensure publication, but somehow I doubt it will make it. If not, I will raise a ruckus:
Hey Cheryl,
I find it odd that you don’t mention is that half of the Biggest Loser contestants have regained the weight since leaving the show.
I find it odd that you don’t mention that, until this season, contestants were encouraged to exercise between three and four hours a day, something the average American cannot afford.
I find it odd that you don’t mention the fact that virtually all of the Biggest Loser contestants have a BMI of over 50, which is an exceedingly rare demographic in this country (0.42% from what I have found), and that the vast majority of those who are classified as “obese” have a BMI between 30-40, which is significantly smaller than most BL contestants. Just 5’7% of the population has a BMI over 40 (aka morbidly obese)>
I find it odd that you don’t mention that the contestants on BL are given a weekly stipend of at least $500, not to mention that they are competing for a $250,000 prize, since getting paid to lose weight will surely skew the success rate.
And, finally, I find it odd that you don’t mention your show’s history of pushing contestants to brink of collapse, with former champions admitting that they took dangerous steps to ensure maximum weight loss which led to peeing blood or severe dehydration.
You can promote this new “cure” for obesity, but the Biggest Loser is not a laboratory and it isn’t the real world. The best approach to health is Health at Every Size, which focuses on balanced nutrition without caloric limitations, and they show significant metabolic improvements without the eventual relapse, which causes even more metabolic damage than you’ll ever see in the weight stable.
Your show is not a new paradigm for health. It is a celebration of shame and stigma, and you and your colleagues will never live it down.
Peace,
Shannon
Ooooh that is GOOD!! Thank you – from all of us! And you are probably right… your post will (most likely) join mine in pending and never come out.
Mine made it through! Hooray!
Peace,
Shannon
Well, look again… the half a paragraph mentioning HAES is missing!
I think you’ve been Edited!
Oh, I edited mine for space. Sorry, I should have mentioned that. 🙂
Peace,
Shannon
Shannon, you continue to impress the HELL out of me with your articulateness (if that wasn’t a word before, it is now cuz I said so! 🙂
Wow! Cured diabetes and high blood pressure in only three days? What a miracle worker! She beats out Jesus – He only died and rose again and brought eternal salvation to the world in only three days. LOL
There is a very Piet Mondriandish look to the blog posts Atchka! Add some color to each of the rectangles and we got something visual going there! But I really wanted to throw my vent-ilator into the mix. Recently I was told that if I was thin I would have nothing to write about and that I would no longer be a size activist and that the only reason I am involved with any of this is because I am trying to find acceptance about my size so I better stay fat or I’d have to find another niche.
What part of SIZE acceptance don’t THEY understand??? The size of body and my weight should have nothing to do with the way people see me or judge me no matter where I fall on the spectrum at any given time. I am pretty tolerant and have a hefty set of deflector shields…but this barb of idiocy was a bit of a zinger. MEAN, STUPID PEOPLE SUCK!
Don’t know about stupid, but ignorant definitely. Trouble is that there have been some celebrities over the years who embrace size acceptance, but only if they’re fat. Then they lose weight and suddenly they are trashing their former fat selves. I can understand that people become cynical when they see this scenario repeated again and again. So the rest of us, most of whom aren’t so well-known, get accused of “making excuses”, or “giving up”.
“The size of body and my weight should have nothing to do with the way people see me or judge me…”
It shouldn’t, but it does. Me, I wouldn’t mind so much if the judgments were, on the whole, positive. I’m not one of those who just want to be admired for my inner qualities. I’m more of a package deal.
Deah,
I’m a cultural goon, so I had to look up Piet Mondrian and I have to agree. 🙂
Mulberry has an excellent point… there really are some people (like Jess Weiner) who espouse body positivity up to the point where they’ve found “the cure” for their “problem.” After they get thin and receive all the positive reinforcement, they drop Size Acceptance like a hot rock. And most of these self-accepting fatties have become a sort of SA proxy… they’re the closest thing to SA that most people will ever experience, unless they search out our blogs. So, seeing celebrities jump ship is going to create the appearance that SA is temporary until you’ve been “cured” of your fatness. Then you’ll join the rank and file.
But the worst (IMHO) is when the person still sort of clings to SA, but promotes their cure as the answer to the real solution that had escaped them up until that point. If they had only known, they wouldn’t have had to accept themselves… they could have just fixed the problem themselves and been happy all along.
There’s not much you can do about the assumptions people make. You just have to accept that people will ascribe motivation to your attitude based on their own experience and presumptions. It’s frustrating, but par for the course. Just keep living SA and they’ll eventually come around.
Peace,
Shannon
That’s why I hate it when you hear of former fatties going on diets, losing the weight, and then acting as if “I-can-do-it-so-can-you!”, because it feels as if by doing that, they’re one less soldier in the fight for fat acceptance. Because if others cave to the pressure to become thin, what then will happen to the rest of us who are not willing or able to get with the program so to speak? Do we just get forced into reducing ourselves in the name of health or what?
and of course, if we say anything like this to or about these defectors, we are accused of being JEALOUS!!! In fact some of these once and future fatties are encouraged by their personal trainers, nutritionists, etc. not to hang around with bad influences like us!
The reason I’m writing is less about what is wrong but how much participating in the forums on body acceptance has really changed my life.
I am in the midst of trying to survive an abusive set of dept heads at my job. A beloved co worker is bringing harassment charges against them and because we are friends, I have become their next target. The co worker said I have grounds to report harassment because she heard them laughing at me and making disparaging coments about my weight. Without a pause, without even a second I said “Thanks for the information but I have no problem with my obesity and they can say whatever the hell they want because it hasn’t nothing to do with me and everything to do with them.” Thanks FFF. I never would have felt that way 2 yrs ago
That’s so awesome. I love that you even said you don’t have a problem with your “obesity” which has become a dirty word, both within and outside of Fat Acceptance. Hell, it’s just a word. Throw it back at them for all it’s worth.
I hope your department heads get tossed out on their behinds. Glad we could help you bolster your confidence. Good luck, Priscilla!
Peace,
Shannon
thanks Shannon. This self acceptance thing, it’s a whole new world
I work for a company which has recently aligned itself with the 99% Movement, and I’m pretty damn proud of where I work. We were inundated with complaints from old conservatives. My personal favorite was the one calling me a “fat union cunt” and saying “all the women who work for you are probably fat whores who can’t get laid anywhere else.”
Wow, I think that’s a triple-whammy! Fat hate, misogyny AND conservative bullshit! *facedesk*
That’s awesome! Is there any benefit to the business for you to name the company here? I’d like to give them my business if possible.
I don’t see why it’d be a bad thing to speak highly of my company, really. It’s Men’s Wearhouse. They closed their Oakland, CA store (probably at least partly for loss prevention) but hung a sign in the window saying “We Support The 99%”. The next day a corporate statement was issued basically saying the same thing. I was thrilled.
Woohoo! Go Fat Union Cunts (FUCs)!
Peace,
Shannon
I wanna stand up and be counted as a FUC too!!!
And they probably haven’t gotten any since Eisenhower was in diapers, so too bad for them!
I’ve never been a Jaimie Oliver fan. I’ve made that very clear a couple times – here in FFF and elsewhere. That being said, please permit me just a moment or two of facetious amusement at Jaimie’s expense….
I recently saw a new video of Mr. J.O. and I must say, for someone who devotes his life and career trying to “end the obesity epidemic”, and explaining how “easy it is to eat right, lose weight and look great”, he’s gotten quite …umm… well… portly.
Ironic, no?
So here is my open letter to Jaimie Oliver;
“Dear Jaimie-
Wow, J.O…. you’ve gotten pudgy. Not that I’m judging, mind you. But gee, how come?
I’m really starting to be concerned for your health now, Jaimie.
Are you no longer eating garden fresh veggies? No longer calculating portion control?
Are you now eating McDonald’s and soda every day – like other fat people?
Have you given up on yourself?
Are you out of control?
Is your emotional state unstable?
Depressed?
Oh my god, are you binge eating? Why??
You must NOT CARE about yourself. You must NOT CARE about your family and loved ones, either, if you don’t get thin again and save all those years you’re losing by being fat and dying young. Because you KNOW you will die young, and the years you ARE here – well, they’re wasted because of being fat.
You must be doing something wrong. Why else would you have put on at least 25-30 pounds? You must be employing horrible eating habits. You must have gotten lazy.
You must have no willpower. No ambition. No gumption. No desire to be well.
You must be a slacker. You must not know HOW to eat well, what to eat, and how to cook it. You must not know the difference between “bad” food and “good” food.
Jaimie, you’ve gone over to the ‘dark side’ haven’t you?
You really need to stop being fat, NOW.
Everything I’ve said about you (above) MUST be true, Jamie.
It has to be true and we all know that — because according to you, and everyone else who is fighting this horrible Obesity Epidemic, there can be no other reasons you would be getting so chubby.
Unless……… ??
Unless that’s just the way you are meant to be, Jaimie – And you know what? That’s OK!!
Own it. Love yourself. Accept yourself. BE yourself.
But do us all a favor now, and back off with the “End Obesity” BS.
Get off those kids’ backs about eating salad every day and not enjoying certain foods and feeling guilty if they do… Stop assigning “Good” and “Bad” labels to foods. Stop assigning “good and “bad” labels to kids (and adults), based on how they LOOK.
Just come to grips with the idea that people come in ALL different sizes and shapes, and -fat or thin – they deserve to be treated with dignity, respect and loved as fellow human beings. Not negatively labeled, berated, or constantly shamed and blamed for how they look. As for (their) health, well, that’s their own business, not yours, not mine or anyone’s.
Good Luck Jaimie. Be healthy. Be happy. Be any size you are (or will be).
Just BE. “
“Just BE.” But if you continue to be negative about fat people, then “just BE” somewhere else!
Excellent fab@54, he has indeedy become one portly fuck. You said what I’d love to say to his face.
Apropos of your letter to him, some years ago in the UK he had a short, misguided and very exploitative series on television over here. The premise was that he would go to the UK town of Bradford and sort out the “obesity crisis” that was all but killing the whole of our society, destroying our morals and sending us all to hell in a handcart.
The premise of the programme was, that as Bradford is a poor town and had many fat people who were also poor, it naturally followed that all of these fat people were fat because they were uneducated about food, could not cook, were lazy, stupid and in the case of so many of them being out of work – indolent.
Bradford is one of our towns that has many, many social problems, mostly due to poverty. The 1980s were very cruel to Bradford.
Each programme took a band of hapless fat people and in the most patronising way possible “taught” them to cook a few different dishes. Dishes most of them hated btw. The emphasis was on low fat, no fat. Every new ingredient was accompanied by a tiny lecture on how few calories the food had, how low in fat it was.
The local council even funded a café for him, where the hapless fat folk of Bradford could turn up for a low fat drink and learn to cook low fat, low calorie food and of course get yet another lecture on how healthy everything in Jamie Oliver World was.. Of course the café failed immediately but it cost tens of thousands of pounds to set up. At the same time educational facilities, hostels for the homeless, low cost child care, library facilities were all being cut to the bone in the town.
Compare this show to the more commonly promoted programmes & books that Jamie Oliver puts out in the UK. They are all based on the idea that the middle classes all know how to cook. Every single one of his recipes uses copious amounts of butter, cream, olive oil and sugar. Healthy eating is never mentioned, because again he assumes that everyone he’s promoting food for in the middle classes is lightweight, happy and healthy. I assume they must be at least lightweight due to shelling out so much money for his DVD sets and hardback books and not being able to afford any food, never mind paying high prices for the mediocre food served in his restaurants.
I had the misfortune to watch the series where he went to America and ritually abused not only a few families but whole schools too. Then when he naturally received a great big wall of rebuff and indifference to his mockney accented bullshit, he stood outside one school and wept. Yep, grown man with millions in the bank, a healthy happy family, a job he seemingly loves, weeping, because “I just won’t give up fighting for the lives of these kids who are eating fat which will give them diabetes and kill them” He couldn’t get his own misguided way so he stamped his little feet and wept on camera.
Somehow I think he missed the class at chef school where they teach how nourishment for the body actually takes place. He certainly could have done with a class on dignity, that of others and his own.
Jamie Oliver has courted the favour of a couple of prime ministers here too. He is relentlessly promoted as a jolly young cockney chump who is a whiz in the kitchen, leads a happy, quirky, mildly bad lad lifestyle and you can too, if only you buy into his schtick.
The truth is that Jamie Oliver is a the son of a middle class inn keeper in a well to do part of the country. He attended a public school (in the UK this means you pay fees, usually quite hefty) His accent is wholly fabricated as is his knowledge of nutrition and the “poor society” he is “trying” to help. Whoever gave him licence to periodically turn up and abuse fat people and whole communities needs a bloody good wallop.
Hey, fierce fatties! Was just wondering: we’ve all realized that BMI is basically horseshit, but what about waist to hip ratio? Is this a better health indicator, or more of the same horseshit that’s just been gilded over?
Hey kokoba,
This is a tricky question because I kinda/sorta have an answer, but it would take someone much smarter than I to ensure that it pertains directly to your question. Although waist-to-hip ratio has become the latest proxy for deadly fatness, the definition of metabolic syndrome does not use that as a metric. Instead, they use Waist Circumference. According to Gerald Reaven, the man who originally reintroduced metabolic syndrome (aka Reaven’s syndrome) in 1988 wrote a paper in 2005 that basically debunked the WC as a useful metric, as I wrote in this piece. His source for this was the findings of the Dr. Katherine Flegal who leads the research team responsible for the NHANES data (aka, the most reliable data on the relationship between anthropometric measurements and mortality), and she told me in this interview that waist circumference and BMI had essentially the same impact on morbidity and mortality data. So WC alone is useless.
However, WTH ratio is based on the belief that body shape determines the “dangerousness” of the fatness, and that the pear-shaped (gynoid) body indicates more subcutaneous, or “good,” fat, while the apple-shaped (android) body indicates more visceral, or “bad,” fat. So, WTH ratio is basically a measurement of body shape. The higher your WTH ratio, the more apple-shaped and, therefore, more visceral body fat.
Now, here’s where it gets interesting: I’ve been reading a shit-ton of research on weight cycling lately and one of the oft-cited effects of weight cycling is a change in body fat distribution, particularly in women. Several studies have demonstrated that weight cycling reduces hip/subcutaneous fat and increases abdominal/visceral fat, which many researchers have presented as evidence of the dangers weight cycling. However, those conclusions are based on anthropometric measurements. Other studies have actually biopsied the fat and found that while the shift from hip to abdominal fat does occur after weight cycling, the new abdominal fat is still subcutaneous fat, which would suggest that while the body shape is demonstrably changed, the type of body fat is still the same. So, the assumption that the change in body shape measurements corresponds to fat type is flawed in weight cycling studies.
Now, one problem with the one study I read that reached this conclusion is that it only looked at a single cycle, and not repeated cycles, which is the true danger of weight cycling. So, whether severe cyclers experience the same subcutaneous shift remains to be seen (for me, at least), but the fact that waist circumference is already a dubious indicator of health, and researchers cannot distinguish between visceral and subcutaneous fat by anthropometric measurements alone (as opposed to the significantly more invasive and complicated biopsy approach), suggests that the WTH ratio is also questionable. However, there are plenty of studies that purport to prove a relationship. I just haven’t read enough specifically about the subject to confirm or deny the connection.
If you’d like me to include the studies I got this information from, just let me know.
Hope this helps!
Peace,
Shannon
Thanks for such promptness! I was debating whether or not to introduce it as an alternative to BMI in a class I’m teaching (not that I’m a health teacher, but one of my ESL lessons was about trans fats and obesity). To my mind it seems like a bit of a better weight-blind indicator (a ratio can be the same whether you’re 90, 190, or 900 pounds), but it still reduces health to numbers at the end of the day. Though, moot point now, I realized; they’re done with trans fats, in the textbook. Now it’s robots.
It’s interesting about the movement of healthy fat around the body! The human body is such a vastly complicated and intricate machine.
Random thought of the day: I work for a men’s clothing company, and they sell suits with a smaller difference between jacket and trousers, designed for bigger guys. It’s usually referred to as Executive Fit, but apparently another common term in men’s clothing is Portly Fit. Just got me thinking … portly is often another word for fat, at least with men, but it’s synonymous here with “executive” … a word meaning powerful and strong. I don’t think it’s inherently misogynist, but it’s definitely another subtle way that reinforces that being Fat is somehow more okay for guys, especially older guys, than it is for women.
http://artoftrolling.memebase.com/2011/12/04/yahoo-answers-troll-they-cant-be-picky/comment-page-1/#comment-179485
I found this post to be so offensive that I reported it. Not only is it not funny and not trolling, but it’s a direct stab at overweight women and will only keep alive the last “acceptable” prejudice this country has. I know it’s memebase, but even that website has been pretty good about not being downright nasty to people. I was extremely upset by this post, and am questioning whether or not I will ever return to that site. I’m tired of the ridicule and I’m tired of the excuses. How immature can people be?
I just lost a friend because of fat prejudice.
She’s had weight issues her entire life, and wanted to lose weight for her health. Okay, I say. More power to you, I say. She’s had some success – about ten pounds in the last two months. Great.
She was talking about weight in her journal, and in fairness, I shouldn’t have clicked the post … but then I saw her and a “friend” saying nasty things about HAES. How the people who follow it are deluded and lazy. How anyone who believed in it was fooling themselves, because there’s “no way anyone can be healthy at 350 pounds.” I told her that she was wrong and I resented her mockery, and offered to link her actual science to explain things like BMI increases and alleged increased rates of diabetes.
She goes “Your sources are crackpots.” And starts trying to explain to ME why I’m misguided and how “my habits will kill me before it’s too late.”
The last straw was today- in her facebook, she linked to CHOA APPROVING of these hateful ads. “They’re harsh but totally necessary!”
I was and am livid. I hope she never has children, because with that kind of attitude, she’d ruin them. Why do people have to be so stupid and pathetic?
That sucks balls, and I’m so sorry. I would like to say that with a friend like that, who needs enemies, there are other people more worth your time, etc. But what happens when normal people turn on you like that? Or when the whole goddamn world hates you? Are you supposed to be some sort of a hermit then?
Does anyone else notice how the one time you ask someone to NOT be a total dick about weight, they whine about censorship, oppression, etc. I ask people all the time not to talk about weight loss around me. There are millions of other places to do that, and they don’t listen.
Anyway, be prepared that some people might blame you for this. They might say you’re too sensitive or that you should have been more diplomatic or whatever. Never will they suggest the bully was out of line for being, well, a bully.
Why must people be so stupid and pathetic? I wish I had the answer to that one.
CC, I’ve encountered A LOT of trolls like that. On the one hand, they will beg you to “cite your sources”, and then they will INVARIABLY pooh-pooh those same sources no matter how sterling they are.
My approach (somewhat controversial and not for everyone) is that I mock them back. It’s my Internet version of the Golden Rule – I assume they are treating me the way they want to be treated. What are they going to do in response – insult me? They’ve already insulted me, big deal. I usually prefer to be civil, but my civility is not guaranteed.
Mocking and flaming are different, BTW. Flaming is more emotionally taxing. Mocking tells them that you’re not going to take them seriously until they do as much for you.
I am continually amazed at how often fat people are accused of making excuses for their fat. Who the ever living fuck wants to be fat in this society? I am not refusing to do something I should be doing. I am not saying, “I want to lose weight, but I don’t have time/I can’t afford the right foods/I’m too tired, etc.”
I’m just fat, Einsteins. Get over it. I don’t need to “excuse it.”
Seems to me that rather than living in denial, that people really need to start being honest with themselves. These issues are embedded deep within the pysche. Truly psychological issues. The fact is, is that these people clearly just do not know how to look deep within. This is where true freedom is. They also forget, that what they show is pure weakness to that of others in the acting as if things are okay when quite simply they are obviously miserable. DENIAL! the task is in overcoming weaknesses!
Let me be honest with you, KNOW BETTER. I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.
Peace,
Shannon
I think we’d ALL understand your post a lot more if you would clarify who you mean by “these people”.
Are you implying Fat People? Anti-Fat people? Dieters? Anti-dieters? Fat Bully-ers?
So, like, WTF are you talking about?
Maybe he’s talking about himself.
I guess we’ll have to wait until he gets off the hallucinogens to find out the answer.
Poor Paula Deen.
I’m not a rabid fan of Paula’s, but I’ve watched her show from time to time, especially in the beginning when she was the most amusing and animated of ‘cooks’ on the FoodNetwork. But poor Paula… now she has diabetes.
I am constantly appalled at the hatred and the viciousness in the attacks against her now; all because of her personal health status. It’s all “serves her right!” and “Well, what do you expect when you cook and eat like a PIG and tell others to eat that way too?!” “She deserves it!”
People “deserve” diseases, now?
What would have been said if Paula never got diabetes, and eventually lived to be 90? Would we look into how her diet and food choices might have positively enhanced her longevity? Oh hell no we wouldn’t! Where’s the fun in that? We would have chalked it up to incredible LUCK and good genes.
I’m sure Paula has her yearly check-ups and medical exams. I’m sure she’s had blood work done many many times in the past. But diabetes is just cropping up now- after the age of 60 (she just turned 65), and this is NOT so unusual a time to crop up- for anyone!
There are many other cultures around the world where fried foods, with high fat content, or sweets are consumed as a daily practice, and they don’t have a diabetes issue. There are cultures around the world where foods are (what we consider) very “healthy” — and diabetes is an issue there as well. Diabetes is not a “food issue”. Diabetes is a BODY CHEMISTRY issue – that food can affect once you have it. Food doesn’t CAUSE diabetes.
What I find even more sad, is the way Paula herself seems to be all contrite and shameful in her acceptance of diabetes as “her fault”. She says nothing to defend herself; nothing to separate herself (and her diabetes) from her cooking / eating and her show. She is absolutely agreeing with the blame being placed on her and cowering under the shame of it all. Poor Paula.
(I wanted to write this in response to a Huffington Post story on Paula’s diabetes… but they don’t allow enough room, and besides, it’s useless there. But I wanted to vent just the same).
I’ve been lurking around Fat Acceptance sites for about a year now, and don’t have any fat friends to talk to about my new understanding and acceptance of myself and others. Something happened this morning that I don’t think anyone but my fellow fatties would empathize with. Not sure if this is the appropriate place to post personal stuff, but the code words here are “let it out,” so I’m taking that and running with it!
There was this Nutrisystem commercial on this morning, and the spokesman (probably 50-60 years old) was saying how he was overweight, never worked out, and his health was horrible. I made the comment around my boyfriend that those three things are completely unrelated. The spokesman being overweight isn’t a bad thing in and of itself, being active increases muscle and tone but doesn’t necessarily make you lose weight, and the health issues could be because he’s, well, older. I was talking about how genetics has a big part in whether you gain or lose weight easily because i have friends who could eat their body weight in Taco Bell every day and stay 105 pounds and then I know people who overindulge a bit over the holidays and gain 30 lbs in no time. That has nothing to do with how healthy they are…it’s just genetics and a multitude of other factors that have nothing to do with what they eat. My boyfriend said that eventually the weight would catch up to the naturally skinny people (vague future health threat, anyone?). I tried to refute this with more personal experience based evidence, but, unfortunately, the VFHT is such that there is virtually nothing you can say in response to it. This was frustrating enough, but then…
I made the mistake of asking him, “If I never lost a pound and stayed like this forever, would you still be attracted to me?” I have purposely avoided asking questions like this since I’ve gained the weight back from the diet I was on last year, because, first and foremost, my self-worth shouldn’t come from whether others deem my body attractive or not. What I eat, how much I move, and whether I gain or lose weight is no one’s business but mine. But anyway, he dodged the question and insisted that I would, in fact, lose the weight again because we are planning several hiking trips this year. I asked again. He reminded me that when I lost weight last time that I “was so hot.” So clearly, I have the ability to be that hot again.
To quote the lovely Ragen from danceswithfat…what with the who now?
Upon seeing the look on my face, he clarified and said I was beautiful right now, and I reminded him that we are planning on trying for a baby next year, and just what exactly does he think is going to happen when I get pregnant? And then get pregnant again for each of the five or more children he wants? What is going to happen 40 years from now when I am old and wrinkly? Is my worth as a partner going to diminish because I have stretch marks and wrinkles from the wonderful years we’ve had together?
He’s a wonderful, compassionate, strong man, and I love him. But this closed-minded viewpoint on what is or is not attractive is going to cause a serious rift if we’re not careful. I want to hear him out on this. But I am not going to compromise my healthy mental state and emotional balance that I have struggled for the past 2 years to arrive at just so I can fit into some random culturally-designed hotness cookie cutter shape.
What should I tell him? What questions should I ask? Is there anything I can say at this point to make it better?
Hi Reveille,
Welcome to Fierce Fatties and thank you for letting it out.
Wow, what a difficult situation to be in. Your understanding of the complexity of weight and health is solid, and your boyfriend seems to be in the traditional camp. Now, how to bridge that gap?
First off, I wouldn’t discard him outright. Education takes time and in this culture where weight loss is seen as a simple equation (eat less, move more), there are no amount of facts that will erase that doubt that society has sown deep in his psyche. So, what I would recommend depends upon your goals.
If you’re happy as you are and don’t want to make any changes, then you’ll have to convince him through a persistent education campaign that will require sharing information that you come across. Email him blog posts and studies and articles, like “The Fat Trap” in the NY Times, that demonstrate that your views aren’t something you’re pulling out of your ass. Sew the seeds of doubt in the current paradigm, and once he begins to at least question what he has always accepted, then buy a copy of Health at Every Size by Linda Bacon and see if you can get him to read it too. It’s a very convincing book, and offers some great research and assessment on health that are pretty persuasive.
The other approach might be easier in terms of persuasiveness. If you want to get healthy, then get the HAES book right away and start incorporating more physical activity and a more balanced, nutritious diet into your life (if you aren’t already). By actually living the theories you’re presenting him with, he will see first hand that you are making healthy changes, but that your body changes relatively little (most of the changes are internal, like swapping muscle for some fat). By demonstrating the principles of HAES, he will have a harder time refuting the fact that making healthy lifestyle changes doesn’t result in thinner bodies. Right now, he can make assumptions about other people, but if he sees your lifestyle choices and the results in action, then the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.
If neither of these approaches is possible, or if neither works, then he may be too stubborn to persuade. Some people just can’t let go of their belief systems, no matter how much evidence you present to them. And if your sexiness depends upon your waist size, then he may just need to go find someone who suits his standards genetically.
All of this will depend upon how much you are willing to invest in saving this relationship. If it is worth the effort, then educating him is the way to go. It may take time, but the evidence is so overwhelming that most people would be hard-pressed to deny the truth forever. Hopefully, that’s where our culture is headed as well.
Good luck to you, and let us know how it goes.
Peace,
Shannon
This started as a rant but it has a happy ending (or as happy as I could get considering the circumstances) now so I figured I’d post it:
Why do people waste their miserable little lives saying bad things about other people?
I am on a dating site. I got a message that a guy sent me a “flirt”. The ‘flirt’ said “u r fat and look like u have downs syndrome please delete ur ad”. First reaction to this? Tears from feeling punched in the gut. Then I started thinking…
Oh gee, I’m fat? Wow I had no freaking idea you see I have neither looked at myself nor had any physical interaction with my own body for the past 20 yrs of my life. *sarcasm off* Thank you for pointing that out, you gigantic a**hat. ‘Fat’ may be an insult in the mind of many people, but to me (thanks in part to this awesome FA community), it is simply a statement of fact. When someone says it to me, I know they are usually using it as a ‘bad’ word, but that is their problem. I’ve gone from being hurt to feeling sorry for them because their world is very very small.
Oh and I see you have also insulted both me and everyone with a particular genetic disorder. So to recap what I understand of your opinions based on your own obvious mental deficiencies: Fat people and/or people with genetic disabilities are unworthy of love and affection and should not waste their time trying to find the same.
Because obviously everyone is looking for sensitive, thoughtful, wonderful gifts to humanity like this d*** who, instead of thinking “pass” when he saw my photo, wasted precious minutes of his pathetic existence and the effort of typing to send an insult to a complete stranger.
Oh this gets better!! When I went back to confirm my quote of the rude and pointless message of Mr. A**hat, he had bothered to send me another message: “u r so large please do not view my profile again thank you” I didn’t even bother with his profile, I just read his message because, um, a**hole? You wrote to me. Clearly you have unresolved issues and a subconscious fixation with voluptuous woman. I am sorry Jeff the Troll but you cannot have me. I do not date below my own species.
I can’t believe how fast I went from hurt to disgust to bemused pity.
Happy ending: Much as I would have loved to blast this miopic douchebag, I wasn’t going to waste my precious time writing to him (no troll feeding this time). Since I refuse to be a victim, I reported him to the site for harassment and violation of TOS. When I checked back after a few weeks his profile had been taken down. I was not happy with how long it took for them to respond to my complaint, since it made me sick to think of him using the site to access and insult other unsuspecting women. However justice (albeit *late*) was served, and at least one troll was “slain.”
People do things they can get away with, until someone stops them.
IT. IS. NOT. OKAY.
Keep fighting everyone!
Stay fierce!
Isn’t it great when you confirm within yourself that you are stronger and wiser than you expected yourself to be? Your initial reaction is the one society has convinced you is appropriate… when people say mean things about your body, you should feel sad, self-loathing and deserving of the negative attention. But once you realize that the cruel words of others say more about them than about you, you are suddenly imbued with a strength you never knew you had: the strength of not giving a shit.
Which is totally awesome. Congratulations on reaching this milestone in self-acceptance: the I’m-Too-Fucking-Awesome-to-Put-Up-With-Your-Shit Phase. It’s probably the funnest phase because suddenly you discover you can enjoy a lot more of the things you have previously found too difficult or felt too self-conscious to enjoy. Have fun out there, and this song’s for you:
Peace,
Shannon
“Why do people waste their miserable little lives saying bad things about other people?”
They do it to assert dominance and stir up adrenalin, which gives them good feelings. Or they ccould be asocial types who are blissfully unaware and uncaring about the existence of others. You responded well, and I hope this guy stays deleted.
There’s no escaping it, is there?
I am taking a class in creative nonfiction, and my latest assignment was to use drafting techniques to start a draft of a memoir. Do you know what one of the examples in the book was?
Someone doing a memoir of their weight loss. It was mentioned twice and I am only on chapter three. It was listed under “What big moments have happened in your life?
Oh my achin’ word. Can’t I go ANYWHERE without hearing about weight loss?
And for most people, weight loss makes up several big moments in a person’s life as they reach their dream weight again and again and again…
Yup, it’s the ubiquitous American dream.
Peace,
Shannon
Just found out about your site from the news stories on the Atlanta anti-obesity ads. While I’m all for combating unhealthy lifestyles, I agree with the inherent negativity to people based on body shape/size and not healthiness. There may be a correlation between obesity and many diseases, but correlation doesn’t = causation. Also, children on the playground should not be the one’s to decide when someone is fat, tubby, obese, etc., as children well under danger levels would likely also face negativity.
On the flip-side of all this though, I’m surprised that nowhere have I read about the possible increased health-risks of kids who perceive themselves as fat, and aren’t (people with anorexia, bulimia, etc). These ads could also lead to increased eating disorders of the opposite end of the spectrum and worsen those who already have them by adding to their feelings of poor self-image, inside and out.
(I couldn’t comment on the BBC site so I figured I’d share it with the staunch advocate quoted on their site).
Thanks A. Skinny, and welcome to Fierce Fatties. I totally agree with your comments, especially on the effects these ads are having. Yesterday, I interviewed the clinical director for an eating disorder clinic in Atlanta, and he said the ads are having a real impact on their patients. The people with binge eating disorder are feeling even worse about themselves and the people with anorexia and bulimia have basically had their worst nightmares confirmed by these billboards. It affects people of ALL sizes.
Health is not about what you look like, but about how you care for your body, as well as all of those other factors you don’t control, like your socio-economic status and genetic inheritance.
Thank you for joining the fight and speaking out!
Peace,
Shannon
Lanny, Muheeb, Alejandra, Jordyn – who are these people and what are they talking about? Doesn’t seem to have anything to do with us.
Ok, so speaking of unlikely allies, there was a story today on “The Five” (fox news round table show) berating the new white house regulations on school vending machines. The conservatives on the show universally agreed it is ridiculous for the president to dictate our foods in any way, and that legislating people’s diets is beyond an overreach of government authority. Of course, in the next breath there was the comment that liberals don’t care if you “kill a baby” as long as you don’t eat Cheetos. But that’s the irony, isn’t it? Liberals and conservatives b
Sorry! Trying to post from my phone…. Fail.
Anyways, my point was that both parties think its ok to dictate things in your personal life, they just differ on what. Where’s the party for people who don’t want the government telling them how to eat, when to exercise, how to invest my money, what I do in my bedroom (or with who), or how to care for my own reproductive health? Or anything else for that matter. Notice to everyone in DC…. Stop trying to legislate your own ideas of morality!!!!! And I’m gonna go find a vending machine tomorrow and buy me a snickers 🙂
Thanks for letting me vent!
LOL maybe you’ll find a well-stocked vending machine in the Planned Parenthood Lobby!!! (i hope you take this as laughing with you, not at you as I totally agree with your point)
I have a question, and this seemed like the best place to ask it. Is there a way to lock down part of the site, but not all of it? Because quite frankly, I had something awful happen to me today. I’m really upset, and I think a lot of you would understand. But given what’s happened lately, I’m afraid to post it here. This is not a safe space anymore.
CC,
There’s no way to lock down portions of the site, but if you want to try our Facebook forum, it’s more secluded (about 100 members, all fans), or you can email me privately at atchka hotmail.
Peace,
Shannon
Thanks. Working on both.
You could email me privately at joannadeadwinter@gmail.com. I myself am developmentally disabled and I feel your challenges. Anyway, I’m a great ear and a good place to vent. Have a better day.:)
You can email me – vesta44@gmail.com too if you want, don’t know how much help I can be, but I can offer a sympathetic ear (and an empathetic one too).
I just ran across this unfortunate HuffPo article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/30/obesity-costs-dollars-cents_n_1463763.html?ref=mostpopular) and I’m really, really hoping one of the FFF bloggers can tackle it. I’m assuming these numbers have been tampered with/played up/outright made up as they usually are where it concerns Teh Fatties!!11!
I don’t know when I’m going to learn to either (a) not click on these damn links to begin with but certainly (b) NOT read the damned comments. There’s one lone commenter battling the “you can be thin if you try hard enough!!1! FATTY!!11!”. I would love to see what FFF would do with it.
I sent that link to Shannon yesterday actually. It was the headline on HuffPo (ugh.) yesterday morning, complete with headless fat man torso as the headline image.
Hi Amy,
I’m planning to write about it for a post a week from Monday. This is like a post compiling the greatest hits of Fatty’s Destroy the Earth! My favorite was the one about how fatties cost more in fuel consumption. How much more? 0.8%! Quick, somebody blame the fatties for our rampant energy usage!
Peace,
Shannon
LOL!
Oh, I can’t wait!
I’m waiting for this headline: Tanning Addict Fatties Causing Sun To Dim: Experts Say Eat Less Move More To Avoid Catastrophic Collapse of Life on Earth
Hey, ya gotta laugh.
awesome!!!! you have won my undying love and admiration for that!
I’m really starting to hate my hometown paper. (TW: Statistical horseshit) Honestly, who writes this crap? More hatemongering.
This was my reply to one commenter who seemed to think that obesity was correlated with greater health risks:
CC – probably the same idiots who write the oh-no-the-fatties-are-dooming-us-all!!! crap.
Hiya, just found this part of the site. Been rambling a bit on other posts.
I’ve got the HAES book but haven’t read it yet (prioritising that!)
I am in the morbidly obese range, I think. I’m trying to stay away from the scales, I’ve been on them at least once a day for years now.
While it would be nice not to have the anti-fat prejudice (I hate it when people yell abuse at me) and I know I have internalised a lot of it – when doctors/nurses have said, I am fat because of my PCOS, anti-depressants (I’m bipolar) etc I tend to think, no, I’m fat because I am lazy/disgusting/a bad person, for instance.
But I do have a problem with food. I am lucky in that I like vegetables, home cooked food etc. The only benefit I got from Atkins is I learnt how to cook on it! Unfortunately I have a bit of a problem with junk food. Specifically, biscuits (cookies), chocolate bars and other sugary things, and crisps (chips). My problem is really that while I’ll eat sparingly (not really a hungry person) during the day, and quite healthily, I buy lots of junk and stuff it all into my face at night, in my bedroom. I live with my parents and I can’t have sweet things in the house in plain sight (forbidden foods) and so I eat under cover. I’m not really sure why I do it, I’m not hungry, I’m almost never hungry, but I still do it. If I don’t do it, within a few days I end up craving sweet/crunchy/chewy things – I did Atkins once and ended up eating a packet of dry, uncooked crumble mix because I got desperate!
I know I need to figure out why I am eating like this. I don’t care about the weight, but I want to have a normal eating pattern! For one thing, I’m on disability and can’t afford all the crap I am eating. Plus I’d rather buy other stuff with what money I do have, like books.
Really I’m just wondering if you have any advice on how I can figure out this thing?
Sorry if this is the wrong place,
Emma
Wrong place? Pshah! This is exactly what this space was made for.
First off, your doctors are absolutely correct PCOS and anti-depressants are both known contributors to obesity (PCOS decreases insulin sensitivity and free-floating insulin triggers fat storage). And your relationship with junkfood (eating it even though you aren’t hungry) may be related to your parents’ attitudes towards food. People are naturally drawn to enjoy sweet, fatty foods, and have for centuries. Only in the last few generations have fanatics begun demonizing the enjoyment of sweet, fatty foods. But you’re eating it when you’re not hungry, which I think is understandable considering yours parents’ attitudes toward food. But doing that every day can be unhealthy in the long-term, so how to get better control over it is the question. The good news, I think the fact that you recognize that you aren’t hungry means you have a good connection with your internal cues for hunger, and possible satiety too (some people actually have a ghrelin-related disorder that makes them less sensitive to the feels of over-fullness, which would make it trickier, I would imagine).
I think you’ll find a lot of wisdom and solid advice in Health At Every Size. Self-care is relatively simple: move your body, eat a diverse diet and respect your body’s messages, and love your body now. How you pursue the first two of those goals will depend upon your budget and ability, but most people can find something to work into their lives. If you can meet with a HAES-friendly nutritionist, she can help you work on normalizing your relationship with food. Or there’s always Michelle Allison, who does private online consultations. She’s wonderful and answers people’s questions about nutrition through her blog.
As far as the PCOS goes, a little exercise can go a long way. I don’t know how active you are already, but finding something you like to do is key. If you want to get healthy, then there’s all sorts of small changes you can make to do so. That’s the easiest part. Normalizing one’s relationship with food after years of negative experiences with food can take years to undo. It’s a process, not a switch you flip. Wanting to make a change is really the best thing and reading Linda’s book is second-best.
If you have any questions feel free to email me at atchka at hotmail, or ask on here. I’ll ask Laurie, my friend who is a nurse practitioner and diabetes educator, because she knows a lot about PCOS.
I wish you well on your journey, Emma. It’s not easy, but it’s totally worth the time and energy.
Peace,
Shannon
I am fat and have been since I was, oh 3-4 or so. I was placed on my first diet with I was about 6 then sporadically throughout my childhood and up into my 20s. I had very a very disordered attitude toward food and a really deep distrust and hatred for my corporeal body. Then in my mid 20s I said “Fuck it” and just stopped dieting, and did what the hell I wanted. I exercised because it felt good I ate what I wanted, as much as I wanted, when I wanted It was liberating, and most importantly it was healing. I feel in love with my strong fat body.
Now here I am I my 40s and I was diagnosed with metabolic syndrome about a year ago. For those who don’t know this is a rather unfortunate combination of diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol. My family has a history of this, lucky me. I hear so much about fellow fatties who say that their numbers are perfect and they are perfectly healthy and honestly I am jealous. I am a fatty and my numbers are not perfect, I actually have to change my diet to cope with my health conditions (low carb keeps my blood sugar in check). This need to actually restrict my eating after spending the last 20 years learning how to eat intuitively, without shame, guilt and restriction has caused all sorts of long dead doubts and patterns to attempt to resurrect. I actually, and I am embarrassed to admit this, considered WLS for a short terrified time after my doc laid out the ugly prognosis for this condition. I have since returned to my senses.
Lately, I have to struggle almost every day with my self-esteem, my trust of my body, after being full of self-esteem and trusting my body for lo these 20 years. I feel ill equipped to cope and I feel left out of the FA movement because I am not a “good” fatty, I am a sick fatty. Intellectually I understand that of course I have a genetic propensity to this dread condition and of course my value and power as a human are not affected by the fact I have a chronic condition. Ah but emotionally, emotionally I can hear that little fat kid crying inside me for not understanding why people hate her strong beautiful body, for why things are different for her. I must figure out some way to cope with this, to come to health and balance but at the moment I’ll be damned if I know how to do it.
Christina,
I’m so sorry that this is where your journey has led you because it can be incredibly discouraging. I think what you did in your mid-20s was right. And there is no such thing as a bad fatty any more than there is such a thing as a bad person because you choose to smoke or drink or climb mountains. Your life is your life, and while others are comfortable judging the morality of others, I think it’s foolish. Nobody is in the position to comment on the lifestyles of others because nobody has made it through this world living exactly right, and anyone who claims otherwise is nothing but a liar.
How you cope with this is to accept what it is (a message from your body to alter something somewhat) and to weigh your options and choose the best route for you. Now, here’s the thing: if you’ve developed diabetes, you will need to adjust your diet if you want to keep it under control. But there’s a HUGE difference between being on a diabetic or cardiovascular diet and being on a “you’re too fat” diet. One is self-care, the other is self-harm. We already know that weight cycling (yo-yo dieting) has a tremendously negative effect on a person’s metabolic health, and the more weight you lose and the more cycles you go through, the worse the damage. Personally, I believe that damage to be even worse in children, as they are still developing, and the presence of early onset damage may take its toll sooner over time, but that’s just a theory.
Anyway, one thing I need to clarify is that metabolic syndrome is a constellation of symptoms, although depending on which health organization you ask, the combination varies. So, it’s complicated, but the CDC basically says that you have to have three of the following conditions: abdominal obesity, atherogenic dyslipidemia (elevated triglyceride, small LDL particles, low HDL cholesterol), raised blood pressure, insulin resistance (with or without glucose intolerance), proinflammatory state, or prothrombotic state.
So you can have metabolic syndrome if you have a larger waist circumference, type 2 diabetes, and high blood pressure or if you have high cholesterol, inflammation and a blood coagulation issues. Now, for some perspective, I wrote this piece about the man who reintroduced the modern understanding of metabolic syndrome, Dr. Gerald Reaven, who later wrote a piece suggesting that metabolic syndrome as a diagnosis was not useful. it’s worth noting.
Anyway, here’s the good news: you don’t need to blame yourself because having those genetic tendencies means that sooner or later, they were going to manifest, and age is one of the biggest triggers for insulin resistance (IR), which matters more than the diagnosis of metabolic syndrome. How you treat the the IR depends upon you. You need to know what will happen if it goes untreated so that you can decide whether to treat it. If you do want to treat it, then I would recommend searching for a HAES-friendly nutritionist or dietitian to consult for the treatment of your disease. You can use ASDAH’s “Find a HAES expert” page to search for someone in your area, or there’s always the brilliant Michelle Allison, the Fat Nutritionist.
If you’re already exercising (and I recently found out that introducing strength training has improved my cholesterol some… haven’t heard the exact numbers yet), then you can tweak your diet depending upon what condition you’re treating. This is not a diet because you aren’t trying to fix what you look like… you’re trying to heal your body. And sometimes even eating perfect and exercising a ton can lead to the exact same conditions you’re dealing with.
The human body is fallible and frail, and nobody should feel as though they have the power to prevent its injuries or failures. Focus on self-care as much as you are willing and able, and make peace with the fact that your body has done what all bodies eventually do: contract illness.
And the best people to speak to when you’re dealing with an illness are people who have dealt with illnesses. One of my favorite people on this subject is Warren Zevon, who contracted mesothelioma at the age of 55. Having avoided doctors much of his life, and fearing the treatment would be worse than the disease, Zevon refused treatment and recorded his final album instead, The Wind, instead, which has the amazing song “Keep Me in Your Heart for a While.”
But he also recorded a song called My Shit’s Fucked Up, which is kind of dark, but funny. Unfortunately, in his case his shit was FUBAR, while metabolic syndrome is much easier to control and treat, including pharmaceutical options if lifestyle doesn’t work.
Anyway, sorry to ramble on, but I hope some of this helps. I wish you the best on your journey to health, and if you need anything at all, just let us know.
Peace
Shannon
Shannon,
Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful response. It is so good to feel heard and safe . I appreciate your advice and will look for a HAES professional.
-Christina
You’re welcome, Christina. And if you need anything else, just let us know. Good luck to you!
Peace,
Shannon
How can I connect to your various interviews? I went to your On Hold with Atchka site and got a 404 error when I tried to connect to your podcasts. Am I missing something here?
Also, a suggestion – would love to see a search function on FFF, especially to your articles which are chock full of stats and references.
Hey Mulberry,
I took them off Podbean because I couldn’t afford the subscription and I wasn’t able to update enough to justify the cost. However, this weekend (fingers crossed), I’m going to put them all into video form (minus the video) and post them to YouTube because that’s free. I’m antsy to get them up because I want to reference some of them (like Dr. Blair), but I can’t!
Anyway, did you see the What’s Happenin’ post? I just added search functionality to the theme and ratings pages, and if you scroll to the bottom of the right-hand ribbon, under the author badges you can search by author.
Other than that, when I’m searching for something (which I do all the time because, as you said, resources abound) I go to Google and put my search term a space bar and then “site:fiercefatties.com” and it will search the site better than the search browser above, I’ve found. You can also click here to go to a Google search with that second part already inserted.
Hope that helps!
Peace,
Shannon
Okay, thanks, looking forward to their return. I was just reading the post on danceswithfat about Meme Roth and wanted to reference your priceless interview with her. And thanks too for the tip about Google searching.
Hi everybody! I know I posted on this same subject twice on one of your other boards, but I am so urinated off I have to vent about it yet again!!! Today I went to an ignoramus doctor who preached BARIATRIC SURGERY as treatment for a cold!!! My throat is all red and irritated not because I’m sick but because “it’s really crowded in there because of all the fat around your neck!” If I didn’t need the antibiotics for my ear infection I would have told him to shove it and walked out.
Stupid!!! Hi, doctor, I have an ingrown toenail. Get bariatric surgery! Hi doc, I have multiple personality disorder. Get bariatric surgery! For which personality? That doc really puts the duh in medicine. I wish I could get paid a six-figure income for being a moron!
Letting this off as stress relief:
One of my net friends noticed a lump on her thigh and it turns out it’s a tumor. They’re cutting out part of her femur and putting a metal rod in. It’s terrifying.
In her latest update she had an aside about how being thin and lean saved her life because if she were 300 pounds like her mother, she would have never noticed the lump.
I’m blowing up here instead of trying to somehow trump her VERY REAL AND AWFUL CANCER PROBLEM with my own personal ~fat activism~ tendencies, but…is this a thing that happens? Do fatties somehow miss out on tumors due to obesity? Wouldn’t you notice any extra, anomalous mass, no matter how much mass you had to begin with?
Her mom has been kind of a whinging body shamer (“You’re too thin!”), so I can empathize with her outrage, but obesity being a health concern because people don’t notice abnormal growths is something I see a LOT and I’m wondering how much merit there is to it.
Kokoba,
I’m so sorry to hear about your friend’s cancer battle, and I think you did the right thing by not bringing Fat Acceptance into it. There are appropriate times to discuss our activism, but in the middle of a person’s medical crisis is not one of them (for the most part).
As to how common it is for fat to hide tumors, I have no clue. It would only make sense for people who are at extremely high weights. I’m morbidly obese and I can’t imagine any place on my body, even my stomach, where I wouldn’t notice additional mass. My guess would be that it would have to be a smaller tumor on a larger person to get overlooked in a routine exam. But you can bet that anti-obesity people would claim it happens ALL THE TIME and that’s why obesity and cancer are linked (nevermind that fat people get fewer routine checkups because of bias and discrimination).
So, I would guess that it can happen, but probably doesn’t happen as frequently as the Panic would want us to believe. And, by the way, I love the term “whinging.”
Peace,
Shannon
I saw and commented on an article on CNN Online that basically said that very same thing – you know, “obesity not only makes you get cancer, it makes you get it again and you can’t get rid of it oh no it’s all your fault for being fat blah blah blah, etc.” I told them basically that maybe it’s because of all the fat hatred that our society, especially medical personnel, love to dump on people for not being socially conformed to their Stepford ideal, and maybe if they learned how to act more compassionately towards fat people, we wouldn’t be dying off cuz we’d go in and get the care we need, or something to that effect.
SHANNON–
Thank you SO much for checking out the Buddhist forum I’m on, and pretty much coming to my rescue (well, really to rescue us ALL from the usual bullshit…) and providing the conversation with plenty of facts and figures in comparison to the several “Well, I’ve seen fat people who…..” and “I couldn’t fit into any of my size 10 clothes, until I ….” stories.
I think between the two of us approaching the topic from two angles, (you- facts and studies; me- emotionally with Buddhist mindset), we pretty much wrapped that topic up and OWNED it! 😉 Hopefully we did some good and some people there might see things from a new perspective.
thanks again-
Peace,
MaryAnne
Oh yeah, and once again it’s proven that there is no where, no safe haven, no place to hide, so to speak, on the internet or off, where Diet Talk and Fat Shaming doesn’t creep up and irritate — like a rash. Even on spiritual websites! *sigh*
I think ESPECIALLY on spiritual sites! Because you get a whole added dimension to your shame when you can add God to the list of everyone you have pissed off and disappointed by allowing yourself to be fat! Before the days of the Internet I was a member of a born-again evangelical church for a while. I went on a very strict diet with a Christian “diet buddy” and lost like 70 lbs. Then the church kept pressing me into service to run their bake sales, serve up goodies at their “fellowship” suppers, etc. and while they ALL (skinnies being some of the worst offenders) stuffed themselves to the gills at these events, if I nibbled a little here and there on some of these goodies, OF COURSE I soon gained it all back plus another 20-30 lbs. And the Church Folks all clucked their tongues and snarked at me about how I gained all that weight because I “lacked spiritual discipline” and needed to “have a better relationship with God”…etc…cue REM here: “That’s me in the corner, that’s me in the spotlight, losing my religion…”
It’s so hypocritical what these “good church folk” did to you! Setting you up for failure and then kicking you when you inevitably do what they secretly were hoping you would do so they could sit there and smugly say “See? We KNEW you’d fail! We were right, as usual.” It’s so-called “Christians” like that that give those who TRY to live a good life as a believer a bad name.
I had no idea that was you, Fab. I saw the links coming in from that site and I’m always curious when a new site is linking in. But that one person’s comment about obese people being unable to move their bodies properly just stuck in my craw. So, I’m glad I could help, and I’m glad you were there to put your Buddhist spin on it. 🙂
Peace,
Shannon
My rant moment is about how none of my friends believe the experiences I’ve had, where I’ve been discriminated against because of appearance. I’m not ugly, though I have developed facial dysmorphia (like body dismorphia) in the last few years. I’ve been alone a long time (meaning lack of romantic relationships) and have given up. I just don’t care anymore and assume that love is for young, beautiful women (I’m 47 so…middle aged). I have suffered in employment, personal life and even at the hands of my own family (they don’t seem to understand how abusive it is to discuss weight loss ALL THE FREAKING TIME to me or how saying “You’d be so pretty if only you’d lose weight”. – but I digress). I’ve been bullied since I was 5, even by a couple of teachers (in first grade the teacher bullied me because of my weight and they had to transfer me to another grade one class). Despite all this, I learned how to appear confident and interact socially so that most people don’t know how I really feel. I get told I need to be more confident to find love (I used to be), and that I should be less picky when it comes to men (meaning if someone introduces me to a man who is fat, that our weight is the only thing we need to have in common). I’m so tired, tired of explaining myself, tired of caring what other people think, tired of being made to feel like I’m an outsider and not good enough. I do have a few people who love me and accept me for myself and even think I’m beautiful, but that doesn’t change the fact that I’ve always felt I wasn’t good enough, even though I’m smart, funny and amazing. Anyway, glad to have found this place where I can be me and not worry that I’m too ugly, too fat, too timid, not confidant and apparently, a liar or I misunderstand how people treat me because I assume they are going to treat me badly. Is it wrong to want to scream in the faces of the people who disbelieve me? I don’t do it, but I feel like they just don’t get it. Anyway, thanks for listening to my ramble….glad I could be here. Thanks for having me. I’ll be bringing the sugar free cupcakes later (sugar free because I’m diabetic).
HI Janet. Welcome ‘Home’. I don’t think there are any people here at FFF that don’t understand your rant and empathize with your experiences. You are not alone. Fat shaming damages lives and ruins dreams. It has become as ingrained in our culture as racism was 100 yrs ago.
And like racism, it may never totally ‘disappear’ from our culture, but with persistence and determination (and a lot of in-yer-face back talk!) we might get a majority of people to accept everyone, and treat them respectfully – regardless of size.
There will always be the few die-hard fat haters/shamers, just like there are die-hard racists left in the world. But they can’t speak out and/or hurt anyone as freely anymore without swift and severe consequences from the rest of us. THIS is what we need to strive for with fat shamers and size-ists everywhere. This is why it’s important that the FA movement needs ALL kinds of people (of every size, color, religion, etc) to take part.
Hi Janet,
Welcome to Fierce Fatties. Your story sounds remarkably similar to my own. To this day, I feel a sort of anxiety/ambivalence about other people because of the torment and abuse I’ve experienced at the hands of well-intentioned family and friends. It isn’t easy to cope with because it leaves you wondering what the hell is wrong with you, rather than what is wrong with them for not seeing how awesome you are. In the end, I just decided I’m too awesome to be appreciated by the average person, and that’s their loss. 🙂
I also have facial dysmorphia (great term) and feel like there’s something physically wrong with meat times. There isn’t, of course, but others have convinced me otherwise and it’s hard not to believe them.
I hope you are able to find peace with yourself and that you will find love, the best love for you, in due time. Wanting love and being unable to find it can be lonely and frustrating and heartbreaking, so I hope you can keep your spirits high and enjoy the gift of life, even if it means that you travel this road alone. It can still be an amazing journey. But I do hope you find what you are looking for and that happiness will be yours whatever may come.
Peace,
Shannon
“In the end, I just decided I’m too awesome to be appreciated by the average person, and that’s their loss.” Priceless! May I borrow this? I was feeling kinda inadequate earlier wondering why some people just sit there and look down their nose at me. I mean, intellectually, I can understand that not every one is going to like you, but when they stare coldly at you and yet are chummy-pally with others, it can really make you wonder what is wrong with you deep down.
Thanks for the warm welcome Fab#54 and Atchka…..it’s nice to know that I’m not alone, but sad and a little angry that it’s a familiar story. To know that I’m not the only one who has felt like this and that others have had to endure this same abuse makes me angry. I will say this, my father taught me self acceptance better than my mother, because sadly, my mother had an extremely abusive childhood after her own mother died. My mom was only 4 and was then put into abusive foster care (this is back in the 30’s and 40’s) where she was never taught how to be a mom. She did her best and loved me fiercely but alas, I have had to teach myself many lessons. I was lucky my dad was who he was and in the last years of his life he was able to make me feel like I was important and special.
As for love, yes, some of us don’t get the luck of finding that special someone, but maybe I will. I guess you’re never too old, right?
It’s funny about the facial dysmorphia though, I always said I was pretty, beautiful eyes and smile, great skin and I don’t look my age. But then, a few years ago I stopped getting the comments about how pretty I am. So, I just lumped that in with the rest of my feelings of inadequacy and assumed a lot of things. I’ve been considering therapy for it, in hopes I won’t see the monster in the mirror anymore; the monster I know is not there! It’s weird when your mental state makes you see what isn’t there.
AGain, cheers for the welcome.
Janet – I dated off and on for a few years, and then about the time I hit my 40s, I seemed to run out of men who were interested in me for anything other than being a “friend with benefits” (not something for which I was willing to settle). I had decided I was going to be single for the rest of my life, and was happy with that (after all, I’m my own best friend and my own best entertainment, most of the time). Then a man answered a personal ad I’d forgotten I had. I debated about calling him back for a couple of weeks, then said what the heck, why not, nothing ventured, nothing gained (I was 51). We talked on the phone for a couple of months before we finally met in person, and found out we had a lot in common. We got married 6 months after he answered my ad, and we’ll have been married 7 years this coming December (and I had just turned 52 when I got married for the first, and last, time). So I say don’t give up hope, there is someone out there who is perfect for you and you never know when you’ll run into that someone.
As for the facial dysmorphia, I’ve gone through that too. I used to think I was fairly good looking when I was younger (not ugly, not beautiful, but average cute). Now, I’m not so sure that I even qualify as average anymore, even though I don’t look my age, and my skin isn’t damaged/blemished or anything like that. It’s like my face has changed as I’ve gotten older and I don’t look like the same person I was even 10 years ago, let alone when I was 38 or 28 (I had a friend who had multiple personalities, and her looks changed, depending on what personality was “out” at the time, that’s the way I feel sometimes, that my looks have changed that drastically, it’s like I’m a whole different person).
I have struggled with body image and weight since age ten. I have recently (at the insistence of my spouse) begun to deal with HAES and self acceptance. I am thankful, beyond words, for all of you.
Your research, insight and experience is a great help. Yes, I’m overweight. Yes, I struggle. No, I may never be a size 8….but that’s okay.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. For everything.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaw, you’re welcome rennratt. And it sounds like your spouse is awesome. I’m so glad we can be a part of your journey to self-acceptance. Keep fighting the good fight and we’ll be here to lend you a hand.
Peace,
Shannon
I’ve heard about this ad for Ragu that was aired during the olympics:
Now, I’ve heard people say it’s disturbing, because the child walks in on his parents doing it. What’s really disturbing, is the ad suggests by using a fat boy common stereotypes about fat children, most notably that food is the sole means fat kids use to comfort themselves. Which is why the parents gave him Ragu after he walked in on them.
I’m disgusted by the schoolyard bully insults I’ve read about the kid in comments about the video. Furthermore, it’s also another major failing of adults who should know better, finding a clever way to make a mockery of fat children. Since, we all know, shaming really helps with losing weight so well.
I saw it too, and I was kind of disturbed by it. Not surprised, really, as ads just seem to be aimed at gaining attention, regardless of how. I’m not surprised somebody went “here.” But I find it bizarre that they almost turn this into “traumatized child copes with psychological damage through binge eating Ragu” story. That doesn’t seem like the kind of association you’d want for your product. “Ragu: The pasta sauce of choice for emotionally stunted children.”
Peace
Shannon
I finally saw this commercial for myself last night. It jumped out at me because of reading about it on here. (Probably saw it before, but like most people I habitually tune out commercials). It’s the most disgustingly tasteless commercial I’ve seen since years ago, one for some fiber product to cure “irregularity” that shows a woman staring down into the toilet and the voice-over says “You like XXXX because you love the results!”
BBDee – that sounds funny! (The fiber commercial I mean). Yes, makers of Product XXXX, I just LOVE staring into my toilet to see the results! LOLOL
Fat Fear
After a few preliminary days of feeling progressively stiff and achy in my left shoulder joint, I awoke one morning completely locked-up in pain. Full blown ‘frozen shoulder’ syndrome. Oh man! I had had this happen once before in the other shoulder a few years earlier. Believe me, I am not a delicate flower when it comes to bearing pain and/or working through it. But this pain was really something! It brought tears to my eyes with the slightest movement. And because I had been there done that with my other shoulder, I knew it wasn’t going to get better on its own, or anytime soon, not without medical intervention. So, off to the local ER I went….
Eventually after initial triage and vitals, I was shuffled off to get xrays done of both shoulders. A male nurse slowly and patiently walked me down the long hallways to the radiology department, and set me up in the changing room with a gown and instructions to get undressed from the waist up, put on the gown, and walk out into the xray area through another door whenever I was ready. He would let the radiology tech know I was there getting changed into a gown. He patted my arm before closing the door and said “Hope you feel better!”
A few minutes later I heard a gentle knock, and a female voice asked “Everything OK in there? Do you need any help?” I answered that I would be out in a second, that I was moving slowly and painfully, but I was just about ready…
As I opened the door to walk into the area where they take the xrays, I see the technician standing about 3 feet from the door, between me and that hard, cold, thigh-high table under the xray machine.
She turns towards me, and the look on her face was, well, puzzling to me. Instead of walking towards me and guiding me towards the table, she instead stepped back a couple of feet. Odd. As I passed her on my way to the table, she hovered just behind me. Never taking my elbow, or asking if I needed help, or assisting me in any way at all. We’re going to do this xray standing up, she says. She points to the far wall with one of those big, square, framed things they slide the xray plates into to take the picture. She walks over to it and adjusts the height of it so my shoulder joint is about dead center on the square area as I stand about 8 inches away with my back to it.
Now this is where things get weird.
She wants to position my arm and shoulder a certain way. She looks at it, (she never looks me in the eyes, ever), and then asks me to straighten my arm downward. Then she tells me to move backwards until I can feel my back/shoulder against the big square.
OK, she says, my arm is still not in the right position… and she reaches out to move it, hesitantly, with only the very tips of her cold, bony fingers. Index and middle finger tips on each hand — really, think about that, and how odd that is/looks. Her touch is almost non-existent.
I said, It hurts – a lot – but I can move it, slowly; thinking she was afraid of hurting me. She didn’t answer, really.
After what seemed like a painful eternity, she managed to get me to move my arm and shoulder into the two different positions she needed them to be in to take the xrays. But she did it more with verbal instruction than with any physical contact. And she seemed to stand an unusually far distance away from me, too. She was pretty much ‘reaching out’ as she was touching me with those icy fingers of hers. I almost rolled my eyes and was silently saying, Oh come ON, Precious… let’s get this done, I’m in pain here!
Left shoulder all done, it was time to take an xray of my non-hurting shoulder… the one I could move freely and without pain. She pulls out the xray film tray (again), inserts a new one, and slides the big square over behind my right shoulder. I move forward instinctively to give her a little room. Time to position me so my good shoulder /arm is ready for the xray. Once again she stands nearly at arm’s length and begins positioning me with those two frigid, hesitant finger tips – barely making contact – with instructions on backing up and straightening my arm.
But actually, I realize, she’s not afraid of hurting me at all. She just doesn’t want to touch me. OK, Let me make that really clear – She. doesn’t. want. to. touch. me.
I couldn’t believe it. I mean, seriously? Here I am, freshly showered, I’m dressed well enough, (at least from the waist down!), my breath doesn’t stink, I don’t have any skin diseases or suspicious looking sores or anything, my hair is clean and brushed, I’m trying to be as pleasant as possible – even though in pain – so WTF??
Holy shit, I got it. Suddenly it was clear to me… She doesn’t want to touch me because I am FAT! There could not have been any other reason.
WOW. What a feeling. It was not a good feeling, either.
I’ve been touched by dentists, doctors, nurses, technicians – all sorts of medical people in my life, just like anyone else, I never got this kind of vibe from them. I’ve shaken hands with strangers, teachers, clergy people, touched others and been touched by people in bars, at parties, on the street, on public transportation, both friends and acquaintances… never felt like anyone had a real aversion to me because I was fat. Hell, I’m a Reiki practitioner, I put my hands on people all the time! No problem!
This… this was infuriating. Only I didn’t realize how infuriating until I was in the car and on the way home about 2 hrs later. It took me that long to process that whole experience and get really pissed about it. But believe me, I will never be so dense again. If I ever notice anyone – especially in the medical field! – acting ‘afraid’ to touch me because of my fatness… there’s going to be a real blunt, one-sided “discussion” between us, I can tell you that.
Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing?
Yes, I’ve had something similar happen when I went in to see my orthopedic surgeon about my knees – it had been about a year and a half since I’d had a SynVisc shot and he wanted new x-rays of my knees before giving me another shot. So down to x-ray I go. There are 2 young male techs there, one is giving me directions on where/how to stand for the one set of x-rays while the other one is doing something else. The one who’s giving me directions won’t touch me at all, he’s just telling me how I need to stand and telling me I need to get my knees closer together. I told him “I have thunder thighs, this is as close as my knees are getting, it’s going to have to be good enough.” Then they lower the x-ray table because they want to take other views and I have to lay on my back with my knees bent and hold the x-ray plate (sorry, I can’t do that, one of them had to hold the plate while the other one took the x-ray). Then I had to lay on one side so they could get a side view (and they took their damn sweet time doing it, even though I told them I had fibromyalgia and laying on my hip on that hard table was painful). They never offered to help me on or off the table either, even though it was obvious that it wasn’t easy for me to get on or off of it. That’s the first time that has ever happened to me at that particular place – I’ve had x-rays done there before and the female techs were always helpful and willing to touch me to position me exactly how they needed me in order to get the best pictures. The kicker about all of that – I didn’t even have to take off any clothes at all for the x-rays, I was fully dressed the entire time (and like you, I was freshly showered, clean clothes/hair, the whole nine yards).
Wow, that’s quite an experience. I don’t even know what to say. How does a person even stay in the medical field if they’re afraid to touch fat people? If the presiding opinion is true, then the majority of her patients would have to be fat, right? Weird.
Maybe she just had a really traumatic experience with a fat person the day before. She was mugged at gunpoint by two naked fat people. You never know.
But seriously, doctors and nurses are swimming in this fatphobic culture of ours, so I’m actually surprised this doesn’t happen more frequently. I’m sure it happens, but I generally have respect for the medical professionals. Save your judgement for individuals. This technician was an asshole and if she is treating other patients this way, then it would be wise to write a letter or call and issue a complaint. That’s really all you can do in this situation without going back and confronting her personally. I know those moments can be pretty stunning, so I don’t blame you for not saying anything at the time. I think if you, or anyone else, has the presence of mind in the midst of a moment like this, it would be totally legitimate to say something like, “I don’t have the plague” or something less sarcastic. 🙂
I’m so sorry you went through this. It’s shit like this that makes fat people hate going to doctors.
By the way, this would make an excellent guest post for the blog. I’m tempted to ask if I can post it.
Thank you for sharing.
Peace,
Shannon
“By the way, this would make an excellent guest post for the blog. I’m tempted to ask if I can post it.
Thank you for sharing.”
Actually, I was tempted to ask you if you would post it to the Blog… but I chickened out. You can however post my story if you like- permission granted — and I think Vesta’s post is a great follow up to get things rolling, too. Maybe we would all be surprised to find out this is way more common than we think?
Fab54 — Who turns 56 TODAY!! LOL My daughter told me its my “Magic year” because I was born in ’56 and it’s my 56th b’day. Lets see how magical it is…..
I had a similar experience when being subjected to a sleep study because of course if you’re fat you automatically have sleep apnea. The respiratory therapist acted totally repulsed by me. The experience was HORRIBLE, and after the first study the hospital called me back to set an appointment for a follow up study with a CPAP mask to see if it would help. I said no way was i going back for more of that! Between the horror of how I was treated at the study and the even more horrifying thought of having a suffocation mask strapped to me blowing air in my face every night for the rest of my life, screw it!!! I would seriously rather die than have anything more to do with this EVER!
Therefore I am becoming one of those fatties who totally hates and avoids doctors, and seriously contemplating QUITTING doctors altogether and experimenting with stuff from health food stores. But the health food store rhetoric is just as diet oriented as traditional failed medicine.
So I guess my only recourse is to quit ALL attempts to “live healthier”, do whatever the hell I want and if the dire health consequences become unbearable, kill myself! And give serious thought to how I do it, because I can only think of a very few ways to die that wouldn’t be blamed on my weight! That’s how awful all this crap has me feeling these days.
Don’t let the fuckers win, BBDee. Take care of yourself because you deserve be taken care of. Who will do that for you if you don’t do it for yourself? Fuck the fat-haters. Throw the scale away, forget about weight, just eat as healthy as you can stand to, and do everything in your power to respect and love yourself! And if that means desserts and sweets, well so be it!
As for the sleep apnea thing? Yeah, several years ago this became one of the “new issues” ALL fat people had…. (Kinda like ADHD was the new thing/ medical buzzword in the early 90’s.)
I went to the clinic and complained a whole lot because my knees were killing me 24/7 (I have arthritis) and I was tossing and turning all night because of the pain. This had been going on for a couple weeks, I was exhausted, looked like hell, and I knew that an arthritis flare up could last *months*, so I wasn’t walking out of there with no pain pills or whatever.
I swear, that doctor must have wasted at least 20 minutes asking me all sorts of questions about how I was sleeping, without even looking at my knees.
*I Knew* what he was trying to get at, with all the nonsense —
“Do you snore?” “Do you find that you’re waking yourself up?” “Do you think you are holding your breath?” “Do you wake up thinking you’re choking?” “Do you sleep with your mouth open, or closed?”. “Do you lay on your back?” and on and on…. This was a clinic I had been to many times, so there was a complete medical history on me going back a few years. No reason to go the sleep apnea route, except of course – I was a Fatty McFatpants.
Finally I said, Doctor, I do NOT have sleep apnea. I sleep on my side, I do not snore – at all, I sleep with my mouth closed, and I sleep very well – WHEN I’M NOT IN AGONIZING PAIN FROM MY KNEE.
He got the message and FINALLY addressed my knee issues.
PS: Oh, and I did not get pain pills. See, when you are a low life loser who uses a low-cost clinic for health care, the Feds limit how many scripts you can get for pain meds, (percocets, vicodin, oxycodone, etc) and since I had gotten a script for percs already, (7 months earlier!!) I could not be prescribed them- or any other prescription pain meds – again.
*sigh*
Fab, sorry to hear about the fiasco with the pain pills. Dr’s put my late mother thru the same thing because she was on social security/medicare, they didn’t badger her about the sleep apnea, they just acted very patronizing like “I’m not here to deal with all your little aches and pains…” Like she was just a pain pill junkie jonesing for a fix. It wasn’t until her SECOND emergency admission that an ER dr. finally had the common sense to do some blood testing and found this super-high white count indicating SEPTICEMIA (don’t know if i spelled it right, but in layman’s terms, BLOOD POISONING!!!) I still say my mother would be alive today if they had tested her right away instead of sending her home like a bad little pain pill junkie. GOD HOW I HATE DOCTORS!!!!!!!!!
Oh, and as for the sleep apnea thing… they didn’t even bother asking me all those questions. I asked for some kind of nose spray, etc. to deal with SINUS problems, and with no further questions they (a) prescribed an inhaler for COPD which i don’t think does “jack” for me because I was stupid enough to admit i smoked until 2 1/2 years ago. And with no questions asked or further ado they immediately started badgering me to go have the sleep study and gave me all these lectures about how I’m gonna have a heart attack and gain even more weight from my alleged sleep apnea. Just automatically assumed because I’m a DeathFatz.
HELL WILL FREEZE OVER before I’ll ever go back for a “follow up”. I too sleep fine when I’m propped up on lots of pillows (which was not allowed at the study), etc… And my main problem with sleep is INSOMNIA which, given that I have an extremely intense phobia of suffocation and related things like drowning (ironic because I love to swim but my face stays OUT OF THE WATER)… that clamping a mask over my face blowing air jets at me will improve my sleep! GOD I HATE DOCTORS!!!!!!!!!
P.S. Now that Sleep Apnea has become the latest Flavor of the Month, I really miss the good ol’ days when adult ADHD was the Flavor of the Month because I think I actually had more of the symptoms of that one! 😉
Dear “Feminists” (Read: Misandrists who have stolen the title from actual supporters of female equality):
There are still some actual feminists out there, and this is not addressed to them. There are still feminists who try to include everyone – both white and black, fat and skinny, autistic and neurotypical, and don’t give anyone any shit regardless of what side of the aisle they’re from.
The rest of you?
Literally saying that “only pretty girls get sexually harassed” is mindbogglingly offensive. Literally saying that “fat chicks are used to it” is astoundingly denigrating. Saying that the non-neurotypical “don’t know what’s going on” is breathtakingly rude.
I kind of want to cry right now, and I definitely want to smack some fake-feminist ass. How dare you take a word with such noble intentions and pervert it into … this. Every fat girl out there, every autistic girl, whatever, is a potential ally, but apparently feminism’s only for skinny white women now?
WOW! Stop the world, I wanna get off!!!
I have been treated as a troll on the fatosphere. I won’t mention names. I made a comment about how smaller fats sometimes want to see other smaller fats doing blogs. It’s nice reading about the troubles of a person like myself. I said that I didn’t mean offense in the comment. I was trying to say want to seeing smaller fats around doesn’t mean that I don’t want to see the large fat people as well. My comment might have not been posted because it was off topic.
I have always felt welcome by Fierce Faties. They never made me feel like I didn’t belong because I’m a smaller fattie. There is a blog about thin privilege. I feel like I don’t belong since I’m a smaller person. I have some thin privileges.
I wear standard sizes when not on holiday. The shirt I bought on holiday that barely fits is a 3XL. However, I have doctors give me the diet lectures, nurses look at me funny and get treated for my weight not my health issues at times. I get the insults out of passing cars. I get the abuse from friends and family about my weight. To say that I have thin privilege would be wrong. I have more thin privilege than others.
Marilyn,
We will never judge you for your body size, or how your body makes you feel. Your feelings are yours to own, and nobody should shame you because you aren’t the size they think you should be to feel bad about your body. Feeling shamed and dehumanized for your body is not unique to the fattest fatties. There are some objective differences between deathfats and inbetweenies, but it is not worth playing the Oppression Olympics to make our point. Body acceptance is for EVERY body, not just the extreme sizes. We’re glad you feel safe here and we will never shame you, or anyone else, for their body. Period.
Whoever has done so in the name of Fat Acceptance is wrong, plain and simple.
Peace,
Shannon
I was in a lot of pain and dealing with a good amount of stress; it caused me to have no appetite for awhile. I lost a few pounds. It’s so hard that now that my appetite has returned to normal and the weight has stopped falling off not to get trapped in that diet mentality. Part of me says great my appetite is back and I don’t need to buy new clothes since I only lost eight pounds. Another part of me wants to say I should try to lose more. How do I fight those demons?
I recommend staying off the scale altogether and just going with the flow, so to speak. If you own one, toss it in the trash! Tracking “the numbers” feeds the demon! I don’t own a scale and REFUSE to allow my doctor to weigh me. I beat them to the punch about the lecturing with a lecture of my own about stereotyping and what i call “paint by numbers medicine”… I tell them you will NOT automatically assume I have diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, sleep apnea, etc, based on the number on the scale, and the only way I can prevent you from pidgeonholing me is if you don’t KNOW the number on the scale! Marilyn, I hope that helps and I’m not coming off judgmental or preachy. I don’t mean to. I’m glad to hear you’re feeling better. Always remember THAT is the important thing!
Trigger warning for lap band surgery/weight loss etc.
I have a dilemma … I’m not sure how to handle it:
My daughter has a best friend since 4th grade named “Jannie”. Jannie has always had fluctuating weight issues. She’s just about the same age as my daughter, Nina (32 yrs old) who also has weight issues and is at her heaviest – ever, and very unhappy about it on some levels.
Jannie just underwent the newest lap-band procedure about 3 months ago. From my best guesstimate she was probably about 65-70 lbs “overweight” for her short height – 5’1″.
Jannie agreed to the procedure for all the usual reasons; she started to have blood pressure issues; she was “borderline diabetic” and diabetes runs in her family; her doctor highly recommended it and assured her it was one of the least risky and least invasive procedures for weight loss. Jannie was miserable being ‘so fat.’ So, she took the plunge.
Everything went well, there has been little to no difficult side affects up to this point, and Jannie has dropped a little more than 50 lbs in 3 months. Now here’s the thing… I’m going to be seeing Jannie for the first time since the procedure for Thanksgiving. I have seen a few pictures of her, (Facebook) and the difference already with that 50+ lbs gone is very very apparent. There is nothing negative to think -or say- about how she looks.
Here’s the ‘problem’ —
I do not want to encourage my daughter -in any way- to consider this procedure for herself.
I know I certainly can’t stop her if she decided to do it anyway, but I don’t want to add to the “go for it” side of her decision in any way. We’ve discussed all the different weight loss surgeries and procedures to some extent in the past – and she knows I would never want to see her take that risk…. But Nina is a grown woman, as stubborn as her mother, 😉 and if she decided to do it, that’s going to be that.
Sooo… How do I handle seeing Jannie?
The weight loss has made a stunning difference in her appearance, and on one hand I want to hug her and say “You look beautiful!” but on the other hand I’m not sure ‘gushing’ over weight loss is comfortable for me, and I *always* thought she was beautiful anyway!
Then I think about ‘ignoring’ the whole weight loss thing completely, and saying nothing, but I think “Wow, that’s pretty shitty- to pretend nothing is different and deny someone a compliment… and for what? Because it’s something *I* wouldn’t do, or something *I* don’t want my daughter to do?
We are so conditioned to compliment people – on their looks, their clothes, their home, etc especially when we don’t see them very often … to do otherwise with a change so obvious would be even more awkward, you know?
[sigh] I just don’t know the best way to handle this. Am I making too big a deal about it?
Am I over-thinking the whole thing? Have any of you been through this with fat friends or family members having ‘dramatic’ weight loss?
Any suggestions?
Fab@54 – I really don’t know what to tell you. 17 years ago, my best friend had WLS (a VBG) and lost over 250 lbs in the year it had been since I had seen her. When I saw her, I was so shocked at the change in her that I didn’t know what to say. I didn’t know she had had the WLS, we hadn’t talked at all in that year (long story, I won’t go into it now). I couldn’t compliment her on her weight loss because, to me, she looked like a skeleton and like she was ill (you can see the before/after pictures of her on my blog). She didn’t even look like the same person at all, and she had problems out the wazoo with what she could and could not eat. It ended up being something we didn’t talk about much at all. I liked her for the person she was, and her size didn’t matter to me. She was the same person, thin or fat, who loved me, warts and all, and I loved her. That was what mattered to us – our friendship and not the size pants we wore.
I have friends/family who are obsessed with weight loss for various reasons. My sis in law (who I am ashamed to say did a drive by insult to the Facebook page for this site) is obsessed with appearance. My roommate is more concerned for health issues she is now experiencing due to her size (breathing difficulties and edema). My sis in law did the HCG hormone diet thing and she lost some weight and then had surgery to finish the job. She doesn’t look better to me, just different. My friend is starting the Opti fast diet in two weeks. My other friend is trying to lose weight by exercising and eating better (not bad things). I have a way of dealing with all of these folks. To stay true to my values of weight having nothing to do with beauty/desirability and to still encourage healthy behaviours, I always say “How do you feel? Are you feeling healthier?” I focus on the health aspect and nothing more. I might say “Wow, what a difference.” but nothing more. I refuse to compliment their appearance, only to acknowledge it. Is this selfish? I don’t think it’s any more selfish than them with their “good intentions” about my weight and what I SHOULD do about it. I’m polite, acknowledge the hard work they have done to change in a way that satisfies them, and focus on their health. Try that and you won’t have compromised your values nor demeaned their efforts. You can always throw in, “You look great but then I always thought so.”
Hi Janet, I think you should get a Nobel peace prize for that answer! I have a friend who’s coming for a visit next month and she’s always rhapsodizing about whatever diet she’s going to go on next week or WAS on but “fell off the wagon” because, and she’ll never admit it, it was totally unrealistic and unsustainable. How her “wonderful” doctor saved her life by making her go on a diet where she could only eat salad with lite vinagrette for a month and she lost 30 lbs… but then she insists I go thru the drive thru at BK so she can get a large chocolate shake, slurps that down in record time and insists I drive thru again! She’s going to be on the “straight and narrow” when she’s here because her doctor gave her some dire warnings about her sugar being high… but I’ve been trying to tell her for YEARS that if she would “choose her battles” and allow herself a reasonable, balanced diet with room for a few goodies, and accept that she will NEVER be 120 lbs. again she never would have ended up on this crazy rollercoaster in the first place!!! I am very tense about (a) what to feed her when she’s here and (b) what to talk about to try to steer her away from ENDLESS diet drivel!!! I’ll meditate on your words of wisdom!
Fab, there’s nothing easy about this situation. I would suggest that you ask how she’s feeling and focus on that, rather than the changes in her body. If she wants to talk about her lifestyle, then focus on whatever healthy choices she’s made, rather than the result of the restrictive portions. You don’t have to say “You look great,” maybe “I’m glad you’re happy” or something. I have no idea. I’m so terrible around other people, I am the last person you should take advice from. 🙂
Just be sure your daughter hears you distinguish health from weight. If you want to talk about healthy behaviors, do so without mentioning its effect on weight. When your daughter gets concerned with her weight, redirect her to health. You can’t control how she thinks about the subject, but you can try and recenter the dialogue around something other than weight.
Good luck. I don’t envy you at all, and I hope it all works out.
Peace,
Shannon
Thank you, Shannon, and everyone for your responses. They help, they really do.
Shannon, my daughter is pretty health conscious already, but unfortunately has inherited certain genes from me and my side of the family- namely the shitty-nearly-dead-thyroid gene and the fat gene.
She already eats pretty healthy; more veggies and grains than meat; almost no red meat, and absolutely no pork at all. I’m not saying she never indulges in so-called unhealthy foods or desserts – I mean who NEVER does, right?
But she eats well, sees her doctor regularly, keeps up with blood work and her thyroid issues, takes her medications for it, and exercises when she has time. All well and good right? But yet, as many of us know — when you are doing all you can (like she does) and yet you’re still fat (like she is), it’s so easy to get discouraged and look for the ‘Ultimate Fix’ – like surgery etc.
This is what makes me nervous….
But thank you all for your input. ❤
I know, cuz I have a boss who’s undergoing the roux-en-Y procedure (he’s on LOA right now), and of course, everyone who knew were gushing on about it, inc. one volunteer who said she got it and lost 130 pounds and she feels great and blah blah blah (I asked her how long ago and she said 2 years). But all I could say, ever since hearing about all the negative side effects and complications via the website “Junkfoodscience”, was “It was nice knowing you!” I was only half-joking of course. Part of me felt if something went wrong, then people would see this horrible procedure for what it is, but I couldn’t wish that on him, even to prove me right. (But I did have the people at church pray for him).
Hi Guys, long time reader and admirerer but first time poster…. Quick question, I am a doctor here in Australia and work in a private hospital where one of the specialists does bariatric surgery (mainly bands and sleeves). He is giving a “education session” to the junior doctors on his work and I would like to be able to ask him some questions about the procedures (which like you I am quite sceptical about). I don’t want to take over the whole session, but just some questions to make the other drs realise that these procedures cause more problems than they are ‘solving’
Hi Annie,
I haven’t dug hugely into bariatric surgery on the research side, but if it’s bands and sleeves, I may have some questions I can give you and the research to back them up. When is the session, so I know how much time I have to gather it together?
Peace,
Shannon
Thanks Shannon, it’s about 4 weeks away – no rush. Feel free to point me in a general direction if you are too busy!
Google news has seemed to have inserted two new feeds in the sidebar of this website “Obesity related news” and “Obesity Science” Am I the only one seeing this? I don’t know how to disengage this
I don’t see it or anything like that. To find obesity related news, of any sort, I needed to specifically search for it. Google does extensive personalization of their sites. I suspect they know you have a history of interest in that area and have automatically added those to the sidebar as a prediction of your interests.
I have a sidebar link for Migraines (which does apply to me) but nothing on weight at all (cholesterol is the closest thing).
I’m also seeing those two feeds and wouldn’t mind getting rid of them also.
I saw the feeds too and thought they’d been added by atchka. If any of you are using Firefox, it has an add-on that’s an ad-blocker. I don’t know if that would work to get rid of those feeds or not, as I haven’t downloaded it yet.
Actually, I did add them. Sometimes I forget that I’m a little more detached about the issue. I need to start trolling feeds for stories and I thought others might appreciate having access to the kind of stories that “concern” us. I sort of feel like I have to be more vigilant about shit that’s coming from the outside world. I tend to have a “wait and see” approach to picking my subjects, so I figured having a feed might give people inspiration. I have no problem removing it, though.
Peace,
Shannon
Also, I put them at the bottom of the page, so as to be out of sight, out of mind for whoever didn’t like them.
Peace,
Shannon
The feeds don’t bother me, and ad-blocker doesn’t remove them….lol…but I’m pretty good at ignoring anything that doesn’t interest me (and that includes ads, which is why I hadn’t downloaded ad-blocker before now). As far as the feeds go, I’ve followed a couple of the links to articles because they did look interesting, in a “hmmm, maybe this would make a good blog post” kind of way.
Thanks for the clarification. The only reason that they bothered me was because I felt that they may have been inserted by my browser as sort of a police mechanism. Like, really girl, you’re going to Fierce fatties, maybe you should try reading this! lol
Frustrated bystander moment here. I’d normally vent about this on FB, but because of the nature of my job I’m wary of anyone seeing it, so…
I’m a British civilian working on a US airbase in the UK. I work in a small office with about six other people, and they’re a good bunch. But…
This week (because there are so many people doing other stuff next week) we had the squadron Thanksgiving lunch – which was excellent, BTW (I’ve just about gotten to like candied yams by now!). And my supervisor was moaning about how he’d have to watch himself and lay off the potatoes…turns out he’s preparing for a fitness check by living on a low-carb diet that’s heavy on hard-boiled eggs. 😛 Another person in the same situation has been doing that maple syrup ‘cleanse’ thing. And a female colleague’s spouse apparently does diuretics when his checks come up.
I remarked to our secretary how if it takes this much crazy stuff for airmen to reach the weight limits, they might want to take another look at using that as a fitness criteria, but she was all ‘but it’s the military, they have to be fit for deployment any time, right?’ And that they really should be eating healthy and exercising to maintain between checks, and it was their own fault if they didn’t do that.
I know from stuff I’ve read online that this sort of thing is pretty much common knowledge among military folks and their families (at least the US military, don’t know about the British)…it just bugs me that in the name of ‘health’, everyone seems to turn a blind eye to some pretty unhealthy stuff going on. Ick.
Late reply here, I know, but I can definitely relate to the frustration. I have no idea what life is like in other countries’ armed services, but there really is a LOT of stress put on U.S. military members to meet specific body conformation standards and not necessarily health standards. I experienced this living with my brother recently for a couple of years. He has been in the U.S. Army for almost 7 years and the last two has been threatened with termination multiple times due to his BMI and being on medical profile for a back injury due to his commanding officer’s negligence in Basic Training. He can still do his job properly and perform the core duties of any soldier when needed, and has actually saved the lives of many, many people due to being very, very good at his job analyzing/synthesizing data and information, but because of his medical profile and our family’s genetics (skewed far away from anything remotely svelte), the Army has been trying everything they can to have him removed from service despite his years of excellent performance both at home and abroad. He loves his job and I am sure there are many other people in the armed service in similar situations. I know it doesn’t make it right in any way, but the bodily standards these people have to meet are so strict and limiting that most have no idea how else to manage keeping their jobs, which then becomes increasingly difficult to achieve due to the weight cycling and permanent metabolic and health damage. I have no idea how to fix it other than being open with my brother and family about my own struggles with disordered eating and dieting trends and the science behind why these things don’t actually work so that they in turn can be a little more educated on the matter and in turn inform others. So while you can’t vent about the matter where you usually would because of the potential impact upon your job, know that being more outspoken about these matters in general is still really great despite the frustrations.
It’s sickening what they do to our armed forces men and women in the name of so-called “health”. Hell, it’s outright disgusting what they do to everybody in the name of “health”!
Anybody here live in the Nashville area? Want to meet up with 30 y.o., very pregnant, crafty, queer, fatty me and my 27 y.o. geeky hubby? We moved here about 6 months ago and to say meeting people has been slow and difficult is an understatement. I have no idea what people do around here except go to country music shows downtown, do a lot of drinking, and do a lot of interior design/decorating, none of which are anywhere on my radar of fun things to do. I’ve tried finding people on Meetup.com and Craigslist who are interested in the same things we are and have been wildly unsuccessful (hence the interior design/decorating comment since there’s, like, a dozen different groups for that but I can’t find a single group for people who just want to get together and sew things).
Some more background:
I’m currently 32 weeks pregnant and mobility has recently become a huge issue for me, so much so that I had to put in two weeks’ notice at my job last weekend and call off an entire shift because I couldn’t even operate the clutch on the car let alone walk or carry things. This is my first (and last) pregnancy and it was unplanned so there are a lot of things going on that I just haven’t had the time and mental space to handle properly, especially with having moved to a brand new city right at the beginning. I’m home alone every weekday as hubby works 8-10 hour shifts daily. We have a dog (lab/beagle mix) and two parrots and while I love hanging out with them, I desperately need some face-to-face human interaction. We don’t have much money at all. The pregnancy and a series of unfortunate events when we first moved here wiped out our savings and with me no longer having an income, money is kinda tight. I would love to go to museums and cultural events and shit, but everywhere I’ve looked admission is at least $15 per person. I know I got really spoiled living in St Louis for years with Forest Park and all of its totally free admission attractions, but we just don’t have the budget for doing that kind of stuff here in Nashville.
I want to meet people who would be interested in cooking and baking, thrifting (once I can regularly stand for more than 30 minutes without searing pelvic pain or sciatica-induced collapsing so probably like March or April of next year for that one), sewing, crochet, quilting, art, polymer clay, ceramics, non-country music, tabletop or board gaming, fatshion, HAES lifestyle, body acceptance and positivity, social justice, feminism, anime watching, sci-fi movies, Star Wars/Star Trek/Battlestar Galactica/Farscape/Firefly/Dr Who/Torchwood/etc. and various other things of that nature.
Short of meeting up, do any of you have any suggestions of things to do or see that don’t require a lot of money or mobility? I am seriously going stir-crazy here and sitting around the house by myself all day is so not good for my mental well-being. My husband is really awesome and helpful and supportive, but he is only one person and doesn’t like doing *all* of the same things as me and we could both use some time to socialize with other people I am sure.
Have you thought about starting your own group on MeetUp? I’ve never looked at the site, but it seems to me if there aren’t groups that meet your needs, that may be true for other people in your area and starting your own group could solve that problem (or not, but that’s a chance worth taking, I’d think).
I have. The price of creating a group on Meetup ($19/month) has kept me from doing so thus far. I agree that it is a chance worth taking, but I have to get the money together first and that will take a few weeks’ planning and extra budgeting. I figured in the meantime I would put up posts on my Tumblr and a couple of the blogs and forums I follow to see if anyone there were interested or had any suggestions or other ideas because hey, why not.
Ada Mangoes,
I wish I lived in your area. It would be nice to have a gal pal to hang with. I don’t really have any women friends here (in SF Bay Area), and I’m afraid if I started hanging out with some other women, they would start doin’ all that diet talk and crap! Boring!!!!
I have to vent, I’m sorry.
I just lost my cousin to leukemia six days ago. I’ve been trying to deal, but it’s been so hard, and the talk of righteously awesome fat women isn’t helping. (I’m not trying to tell anyone not to talk about righteously awesome fat women, just for me it’s painful.)
Amy was very thin for a lot of years, but then, she kicked alcohol and cigarettes. And she gained weight. She ballooned, compared to her previous figure – she went from about a 10 to a 24. And I never, ever, ever heard her give a shit about it.
I never saw her restrict her diet. I never saw her agonize over her dress size. She married an amazing guy, and I never heard her question how she didn’t know if she was pretty enough for him. I never heard her do anything but enjoy life and be as happy as she could be.
She was diagnosed in April, and she died last week, and I miss her so much. I’ve lost a role model as well as a family member. It’s late at night and i thought I’d be able to bounce back quicker than this, but so far, I can’t.
I am so sorry that you lost your cousin. Don’t be hard on yourself that you aren’t “bouncing back” yet. We all grieve in different ways and we all recover at different paces. Take all the time you need and be gentle with yourself.
I lost my best friend 15 years ago, and it took me a couple of years to recover from that loss. To this day, I can’t watch Boys on the Side without sobbing (that was “our” movie), and there are songs we both liked and listened to all the time that I can’t hear without tearing up. Even after all these years, there are things I see and I think “Pat would like that” and then it hits me all over again that she’s gone and it hurts all over again. That doesn’t happen as often as it used to, but it still catches me by surprise when it does.
I’m so sorry, CC. ((((hugs)))) I hope you begin hurting less and less real soon.
VESTA; I’m sorry about your best friend, too. ((((hugs))))
I’m still reeling from losing someone as well. My best friend for 41 yrs. She passed last March. Yesterday was her birthday, she would have been 55. It was a very bad day for me emotionally. I’m carrying around a whole major shitload of guilt and regret about her death. I miss her something awful.
CC, you’re in my prayers!
I have just had to report a so called funny picture on facebook. I am livid about it. Photo of a large person reclining on a bed with the line.,,OH SO SEXY. The site had posted the photo with the line…”I want to bash this person’s head..with a shovel”. This feels wrong on so many levels, the vileness, the likely posting a photo of a person in a clearly intimate pose with questionable position, the hilarity of a fat person having sexual needs and the sickening violence. I am so cross.
People suck. Well, some people suck, anyway. Fat bashers suck the most.
I really didn’t know where to vent this out but as your site has been close to family for me, i decided to write about it here.
Just got to read a post by this cupidslibrary site and I HATE IT!!! Why does he have to do this to us fat people? Aren’t we feeling bad enough about our weight that he has to rub it in our face?
Here’s the shitty link: http://www.cupidslibrary.com/blog/men-things-to-be-aware-of-dating-larger-women
Yeah, that’s some pretty stupid shit right there. Warning men not to date fat women? Really? I guess there are no downsides to dating fat men, then? What the fuck?
There’s not much you can do in this situation except tell them what assholes they are and avoid their site like the plague. That really is beyond words. Thank you for sharing, and I’m glad we’ve been a family for you. 🙂
Peace,
Shannon
As if we’d ever want to date these idiots in the first place! More like “they WISH!” They are probably the type that are so douchebaggy in the first place that no fat woman (or thin for that matter) with an ounce of self-respect (and even those who don’t have that much) wouldn’t go out with them.
The douchebaggiest thing of all was when he said that because us fat mamas all have sleep apnea, we also have mood disorders so therefore if we get irritated with the douchebag it’s not him, it’s us! Carte blanche to be as much of a megadouche as he wants to be!!!
No, it’s him.
Now doctors who actually realise that bariatric surgery doesn’t work and refuse to refer their patients can get sued!!!
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/obese-man-wins-350000-payout-from-gp-20130207-2e0b6.html
And in the 90s, no less, when it was still an even riskier surgery than today! I hope the Supreme Court takes this case and overturns the verdict, but considering they lowered the settlement because “a ‘reasonable person’ would have taken the precaution of dieting” I don’t have much faith in the court legislating weight loss.
Thanks for sharing.
Peace,
Shannon
And it was overturned! case now closed
http://www.medicalobserver.com.au/news/obese-payout-case-now-right-out-of-court
A “reasonable person” would know dieting doesn’t work! For that matter, I think reasonable people would not want anything to do with that bariatric crap! (And if you did and realized it was a big mistake, you still count as reasonable. If you did or didn’t and still want to get it done, I can sympathize but I would strongly suggest doing your homework about this barbaric torture practice and then make the reasonable choice and stay far away from it).
Thin privilege is going to the dentist and talking about how glad you’ll be to be able to eat normally again and getting teased about gaining ten pounds when you tell the dental hygienist you lost three pounds since breaking a tooth.
Fat privilege is being able to punch said dentist in the mouth and then asking how many pounds they think THEY’LL lose without a mouthful of teeth! (I know, violent – but one can fantasize, can’t they?)
http://www.weightymatters.ca/2013/03/8-year-anorexics-mom-cites-biggest.html
An article about an 8 year old child with Anorexia, who cites The Biggest Loser as one of her main influences. I think this would be a good reference for an article about the absurd notion that being fat is killing our children. This child is starving herself to death, where’s all the press about children like her dying because of our fat phobic culture? Guess it doesn’t matter, they’re thin, so they must be healthy.
If thin is healthy, then anorexics must be dropping dead from all that robust, vigorous health!
I was thinking there should be an article about writing letters to advocate on behalf of fat acceptance, or to complain about fat discrimination. I find it hard to advocate, because I feel that no matter what I say it won’t be taken seriously, or dismissed with “Well don’t you know we have an obesity epidemic! Blah blah blah…”
I am trying to write to everyone I see on the internet who mentions obesity and seems to have accepted the media/medical propaganda. This is particularly annoying when it’s someone who eschews conformity in other areas but blindly swallows size propaganda. But a post about writing letters could be really helpful.
Hi Violet,
I’ll talk to the bloggers and see if someone wants to work on it. Thanks for the suggestion.
Peace,
Shannon
I turned on CNN and to my horror Meme Roth was hysterically ranting and raving about the obesity hysteria. Of course I turned off the TV right away, because I didn’t want to hear any of her hate. Why, why do they keep inviting her on to shows? It’s well known news that she has an eating disorder, is that really is what’s going on here? Now getting up at 4 am and not eating until you’ve jogged around the block is the new healthy? I’m just ranting about it here, because quite frankly I have nowhere else to do so that people aren’t sick of hearing me rant about her. At least there’s that episode of Penn & Teller’s BS about Fast Food where they point out what a despicable person she is.
I am SO glad to hear you rant. I was watching the local news this morning and we just had to have a segment on how to diet through Easter dinner. Blech!!!!! I, too, turned off the TV; I seem to be doing that a lot lately. Many thanks to this website for helping me black out the idiotic box every time I hear the word diet.
I’m getting really tired of all the weight loss commercials on TV. They’ve been playing the hell out of that one with Marie Osmond, for Nutrisystem, where she says they helped her ‘stop dieting and start living’ – after she lost 50 lbs. I want to slap her and tell her “Bitch, if all you’re eating is that pre-packaged dreck from Nutrisystem, you are dieting. And once you stop eating that crap and start eating real food again, you’re probably going to gain back the weight you lost. Does that mean you’re going to have to stop living again, because you got fat?”
Thank you, Vesta! Consumer Reports reviewed Jenny Craig and Nutrisystem, and the food sounds horrible. I’ve never even seen it; have you?
I’ve seen the pictures of it online, but as for seeing it in real life, I haven’t. But I figure with the way fast food in commercials has no resemblance to what it really looks like when you buy it, I’m guessing that Nutrisystem’s food is probably on a par with that – looks good in commercials, but not so much when you actually get it.
Marie Osmond, Valerie Bertinelli, Kirstie Alley and Terry Bradshaw are prime examples of what i call DIET WHORES…”Prostituting” themselves to resurrect their long-dead careers huckstering an unethical product.
I agree, I have lost all respect for those traitors! They deserve to have their careers crash and burn. I saw an ad on a bus shelter for some charity that Marie Osmond is chairperson of, and all I could think to do when I saw her smug face was to give it the one-fingered salute, or the tongue cheer (raspberry). And it’s sad that they would rather have kids starve to death (cuz THAT’S healthy!!!) than allow them to be who they are, even fat.
And this reminds me of a “Maxine” cartoon where my favorite crabby old broad thanks whoever brought the veggie platter to the office Christmas party to provide a “healthy alternative”. Maxine says “Thank you, I’m sure those extra five minutes in the nursing home are gonna be pure bliss!” (or something to that effect)
I was thinking, we need to make it clear to people how many children are murdered by the war on obesity. How many children are suffering eating disorders, because they’ve been told to not become fat at any cost. Maybe then people will listen to us, unless they just hate children.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22001256
Samoa Air is now charging their passengers based on their weight. I shall now resume my headdesking.
Post here and tell CNN to have Linda Bacon on instead of the unqualified fat hating Meme Roth.
So now stores are posting signs that say, fat people aren’t welcome, they need to shop online. Is it discrimination yet? Because I have been told when other groups of people were excluded from shopping at stores, it was discrimination. Although the assumption wasn’t they could change, and therefore deserved the discrimination, like with fat people.
I wonder how far this will go, how many stores will admit they are sizeist. I’m outraged of course, but what’s more important is figuring out where to go from here. I know things tend to get worse before they get better, but hearing children are told to micromanage calories ala Weight Watchers, as in this post http://thisisthinprivilege.tumblr.com/post/47301078728/on-the-subject-of-childhood-anti-obesity-programs. I guess we’ll have to wait until the children die for people to notice? Not like history hasn’t shown that needed to happen before.
Hey, I wanted to leave a quick note. I just got off a website (Business Insider) given to me through LinkedIn, and the subject was “America’s Tragically Inadequate Health Care System”, and as you can imagine, guess what was prominently featured as one of the worst health issues facing America today? (Hint: it wasn’t an overaddiction with the Kardashians!) Well, anyways, if you have access to LInkedIn at all, take a look or I’m sure you can read it on their own website. The author’s name is Michael Kelley (mkelley@businessinsider.com). Read it and let him know what you think.
Well, here I am, back from my second GYNo visit in a week. New doctor, (I like her well enough, I guess) but same ol’ story. She recommended (some/any sort of) weight loss surgery – because of course *all* my post menopausal / hormonal /effed-up uterine/ bleeding issues are all coming down to being obese.
New information, for for me, at least: Women who carry significantly extra fat on their bodies tend to produce excess estrogen, even post menopause, which in turn really screws things up and “tricks” the body into thinking it’s not menopausal. On top of that, I have had (hypo)thyroid issues for the last 20-something years – which also screws up hormones, and taking meds for it, .
A hysterectomy will not be considered – unless there was a cancer issue or something like that. An ablation is also “much more difficult” on a woman of my size. So, I guess I’m just a big fat inconvenience to any doctor’s practice and skill set.
So then I heard her recommendation; WLS. Oh, she was very nice about it; gentle, soft spoken – without being condescending or pitying… but she also painted the usual picture of bleak “future issues” and worse case scenarios, that frankly I didn’t want to fucking hear.
I don’t HAVE really high blood pressure, now… I don’t HAVE diabetes, now… I don’t HAVE high cholesterol issues, now, I don’t HAVE heart, lung or kidney issues, now.
I’m going to be 57 in a few months, if I don’t have these things now, after being obese for the last 25+ yrs, why does everyone act like these things are going to happen ANY FUCKING DAY NOW, YOU’LL SEE!! ??
I mentioned how I had thought about WLS over the years, looked into it, knew people who had it done, and even how I considered it “medically supervised starvation”… and she agreed. She said “Well, yes, that’s exactly what it is…. ” and then she went on to rationalize why I might want to take all those risks involved, instead of remaining “this current weight” and accepting all the health issues (that are sure) to come my way because of it.
I’m feeling very defeated. I can’t believe I’m sitting here unloading this on you guys and actually crying. I guess I had hope…. hope that it wouldn’t go like this – AGAIN. But it did, and it sucks.
I would file a complaint with a higher medical board. “First, do no harm” shouldn’t be some pie in the sky theory.
Fab, I’m not sure what your issues are, but just because you’re fat should not mean that you will have menopausal/postmenopausal problems. I have plenty of body fat and had to take HRT (post-surgical menopause) until I was finally treated for my hypothyroidism. I don’t know why if you are having problems that hysterectomy is not an option. There’s a lot of talk about too many hysterectomies, but when I had mine, I found out every woman I knew had had one and only one friend said she probably didn’t need it. All WLS does, as you know, is create a problem where there wasn’t one, and you have a serious problem now that you want help for. Can you afford to see another doctor? Is it possible to do as CC says and file a complaint? How about seeing a general surgeon? Or two?
Fab, I’m so sorry you’re going through this shit again. I know where of you speak, too. I’m almost 60, post-menopausal, and have had vaginal bleeding for the last three years. I saw a gyno about it when it first started, and didn’t get any answers from him. My thyroid was enlarged and had to be removed, and I’m taking medication now to replace the thyroid hormone I can no longer make. I don’t know if that has anything to do with the bleeding – I can’t get a straight answer from any doctor I talk to. They also want to recommend WLS to me (or just go on another diet) and I tell them “What part of *I had WLS 15 years ago, and it was just so successful* do you not understand?” I also tell them no way in hell am I ever dieting again, and no way will I ever have another WLS. They just kind of shrug their shoulders and give up trying to find out why I have this unexplained bleeding. I’ve given up trying to get answers from doctors about it. I figure if I end up with some kind of cancer, then they may want to do something about it. I’ve also been DEATHFATZ for over 35 years, and my blood sugar, cholesterol, and blood pressure have always been normal (even though my BP is always high at the doctor’s office, it’s normal at home). I’ve been told that my fat is going to kill me within 5 years for the last 30 years at least – yeah, I’m not dead yet. . . . .
I’m soooo looking forward to menopause now, cuz then I can have the doctor suggest some stupid WLS for my female issues and tell me that I’ll die if I don’t get it, preferably sooner rather than later. I agree with you guys, why do doctors insist on trying to push this highly dangerous “cure” onto us, when it’s obvious they’re not worried at all about our health, but our conformity to the “forever young and thin Stepford look”? Whatever happened to “first, do no harm”? Oh, that’s right: it got thrown out when corporations started waving the big bucks in front of doctor’s faces. Gotta have that Jaguar and 16-room mansion to impress the other doctors, don’t you know!
First, I want to say thank you to those who heard me out and offered words of comfort and encouragement. 🙂 Since my GYNo visit (3 days ago) I have gotten over most of the sad and defeated feelings, and now I’m just basically pissed and disgusted.
Elizabeth: I got the distinct impression that a hysterectomy is not an option for me for two reasons; 1. My uterus is basically “healthy” and they (Drs) claim they do not like to remove ‘healthy’ organs… Is it really healthy if I have post menopausal bleeding cycles every 12, 14, 18 months? Well, see, if I lost a ton of weight….I *probably* wouldn’t be having this issue, so therefore it’s not the uterus’ fault, it’s Mine- for being fat. (and I guess it’s my fault that I also have a nearly non-functioning thyroid, too….)
And 2: Even *IF* there was a true medical reason to remove the utie, (as I like to call it) well, by golly, I am soooooo fucking fat that it would be a HUGE undertaking (pun intended) to operate on me, so you know, she wouldn’t want to be ‘responsible’ for that surgery…. But in the meantime, I guess it’s perfectly “good medicine” to recommend surgery in order to slice-n-dice my perfectly healthy stomach and upper intestines into a golf ball size ‘pouch’ so that I physically can’t eat more than 500 calories a day. Yes, perfectly good medicine and worth all the proven sky-high risks…. because at least in the end, I’ll be MUCH THINNER. Might be sickly, unhappy, or even dead- but I’ll be thinner! And isn’t that what it’s all about? :- /
Dizzyd: I hesitate to blame all this on $$ hungry, greedy doctors. Honestly I do. This doctor I went to was compassionate, gentle, and as respectful as possible – considering the message she was delivering to me. She really believed every single word she was saying. She is a very young doctor, in her 30’s, I’m sure she’s been brainwashed / indoctrinated – in med school – into the mindset that fat people NEED to be made thin at all costs and risks, because THAT is the only way they can ever be healthy…. even if it kills ’em.
Fab (I just love addressing someone as Fab!), did you know that one of the symptoms of hypothyroidism is uterine bleeding? My periods lasted the entire month until I had my uterus removed. I don’t get the healthy organ argument when they want to mess with your healthy stomach. What’s being done for your nearly nonfunctioning thyroid? Mine was enlarged (nobody even noticed) like vesta described, but fortunately I was given desiccated thyroid instead of surgery, and after the second grain was added, my thyroid has shrunk to normal size. Of course, if my hypothyroidism had been treated early on (instead of 40 years later), I would never have needed a hysterectomy. Can you find treatment for your thyroid? Perhaps that would end the bleeding. I know finding a practitioner can be extremely difficult; a nurse first suggested I was hypothyroid, but I had to threaten her in order to get a second grain of medication. I simply told my current practitioner he was going to prescribe three grains and he did. I really hope you can find help for this — it is not a good thing to be bleeding and I really don’t think your weight has anything to do with it.
Elizabeth: My thyroid issues were diagnosed at least 20 yrs ago. I have been on two or three different meds since then. For the last several yrs I’ve been on Levoxyl-something-or-other and my dosage is 150 mg, currently.
My dosage was adjusted (upwards) probably 3 or 4 times in the last 8 yrs. My regular yearly blood work comes back with thyroid levels in the “low/normal” range. When it doesn’t, up the dosage goes. As far as I recall, I’ve never been told I have lumps or bumps on my thyroid or that it’s enlarged. My daughter however has inherited the thyroid issues and they are monitoring two small ‘bumps’ on her thyroid gland. She is also now on meds.
You might want to check out the Stop the Thyroid Madness website. It’s geared to the undiagnosed (me) and the diagnosed who have only been given Synthroid (Levothyroxine generic name). I just hope you can find help with your problem; no one should have to go through this.
Thanks, E, I will check that out! 🙂
And thanks to what you and Vesta have said, I’m feeling renewed in my quest for answers. I’m also going to be looking to find a doctor who “specializes” in thyroid/hormonal issues and hopefully get some answers finally.
I’m now thinking all the little things going on with me – from the uterine bleeding, to the fatigue, to the joint pain and muscle weakness, to over-all feeling shitty-ness…. is ALL once again thyroid related.
I’ve been blaming the wrong end!
Fab – Thanks for replying! Sometimes, I wonder if anybody reads my warm, witty, and folksy humor. (Lol) Anyways, you’re right about your doctor. Thanks for pointing it out. Your doctor sounds like she does have a caring heart, but like you say, society (and the diet industry) has people so brainwashed into believing that being thin is the most important thing you can ever do in your life that you should be willing to do whatever it takes, no matter how silly or deadly, to achieve it. After all, if you CARED about your health, you would destroy it in order to save it. (Kinda sounds like the “burn the house down to get rid of a rat” way of thinking, doesn’t it?) So, I don’t totally blame the doctors for believing that way, esp. those in med school who were taught that, and honestly think it’s a way to help their fat patients to achieve better health and a better way of life. (Sadly, a lot of fat people think that way too!) It’s just sad that WLS is pitched as this miraculous cure that fat people should be beating down their doctor’s door to get, as it cures all that ails ya – from Type 2 Diabetes to bad breath – and yet it is really the butchering of perfectly healthy organs, causing not only forced starvation, but severe nutritional deficiencies as well. In this case, the cure IS worse than the disease (so-called). If you’d like to see more about the case against WLS, go to a site called “Junkfood Science” (junkfoodscience/blogspot.com) It has some really interesting, eyeopening info. And keep the lines of communication open with your doctor, you may convince her yet! 😉
(P.S. I THINK that’s the correct address for the site, if I remember correctly, if not, just google “Junkfoodscience”.)
“Burn the house down to get rid of a rat”. Best comparison ever.
Dizzyd 🙂 Of course I read your posts. Thanks for taking an interest. (I feel that warmth and folksiness just ooozing….! lol)
I’ve added a new longer post below:
Just had a chance to check out the “JunkFoodScience” website… Wow! Love it. Bookmarked for further reading. Thank you, D!
I’m baaaaaack!
OK, I’m starting to feel like I’m hijacking the “Let It Out” page and turning it into a Dead Thyroid Support Group… LOL Sorry about that, but hey- this shit is important stuff if you are one of those -you know- super RARE fat people with Thyroid problems.
I know, I know, 99% of people who say they have thyroid issues (and that’s why they’re fat) are really lying, but let’s set aside that troll inspired fact for a moment, shall we? There. Done.
Elizabeth, if you were here with me now, (and would let me), I’d HUG you so hard you’re eyes would pop!! 😀 Stop The Thyroid Madness website and all the associated links are just fan-freakin-tastic! OMG- I really felt like I’d stumbled across THE ANSWER to my issues (thanks to YOU) and can’t wait until I go to my regular doctor and demand – yes, demand! – we try a new thyroid regime. (Natural Desiccated Thyroid)
All this time (5+ yrs) since I started having these “lady parts” issues, as well as joint pain, muscle pain, inflammation, unbelievable fatigue!!, etc, it never occurred to me to think “thyroid” because, well shit, I take meds, right? …. therefore it’s all good. Nooooooo…. it’s NOT all good. I was ready to blame everything on my utie and/or arthritis and yes, being fat.
But Wow, here I am almost 2 days later, and I’m still feeling totally blown away but what I read on that site. I just have this overwhelming gut feeling, this IS the answer… the answer every fucking doctor has missed, or dismissed; and one reason they have is cause I’m fat.
I went for my blood work today, and have an appointment with my regular internist next Thursday. I’m going to demand she cut my synthetic thyroid meds in half (at least) and start me on the Natural Desiccated Thyroid immediately. My fingers are crossed, my hopes are high, my confidence is peaked, and I’ll let you all know how it goes!
Thank you (all) again….
Fab, you brought tears to my eyes! I really, really hope this is the help you need! Isn’t Janie’s site terrific? There are so many of us out here, either undiagnosed or not getting the treatment we need. I get so mad sometimes that people suffer because the medical profession is so ignorant about something they actually didn’t used to be so ignorant about! A friend, whose wife is an endocrinologist and a teacher, repeated her idiocy to me about there being no standardization of NDT, which is propaganda straight out of Kroll Laboratories or whoever is now making Synthroid. No, that’s right, the manufacturers of NDT can’t test their batches of medication because they’re making NDT in kettles in the forest. I can’t believe doctors and how they swallow drug company bullshit wholesale.
Rubyfruit and Fab: Thanks! I’m blushing. Your posts made my day. 🙂
Hey guys!
Yesterday was my appointment with my regular (GP) doctor. I went there all geared up and ready for a fight…. I was determined to leave that office with a script for the dessicated thyroid meds and my doctor’s blessing, even if I had to strong-arm her into it.
Well, I DID leave with the script, and there was NO FIGHT at all!! I very calmly and methodically went through my looong list of symptoms I was experiencing, (aside from the post-meno bleeding) and basically how I was absolutely fed up with “feeling like a cranky, decrepit 90 yr old woman with thinning hair and circles under her eyes”. She pulled out my latest blood work results from last week and Surprise! Surprise! “Wow, she says, I see here your thyroid is all out of wack…..” No DUH!!
She immediately started talking about raising my dosage of synthetic (Big Pharma) thyroid meds – AGAIN. I said, Whoa… wait a second; I have an ‘evil plan’…
She laughed and said, what is it? I told her about the Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT) and how I absolutely wanted to – needed to – try something NEW that, dammit, just might WORK for a change. She was all eyes and ears.
With a little more conversation, she admitted that she has a few other patients also taking this approach to their thyroid issues, and well, if it works for them, it could very well work for me, too. (Big smile on Both our faces at this point).
I was soooo pleased with her, and the fact she listened, gave me no ‘lip’ about it, and didn’t make me feel like some “Internet Idiot” trying to play doctor. I left her office with that written script in my hand and I felt like it was Christmas morning and I just got the best present- EVAH! LOL
I start my new regime tomorrow… Synthetic meds OUT- NDT IN.
Today…. well today I had a follow-up with my GYNO and it was not in any way nearly as upbeat or ‘happy’ a doctors visit as yesterday’s. I’ll be glad to fill everyone in about this — IF it’s OK with Shannon.
It (my experience today) is very much “fat related,” IMO, but I feel kinda bad hijacking this space…..
Maybe we need a special FFF area for medical stories that are size/fat related?
Fab, super to hear about your good experience with your GP! (Sorry things didn’t go so well with your gynecologist.) I really hope this helps you feel better!
I’ve read about the dessicated thyroid stuff and, since my levels have fluctuated quite a bit over the years with the synthetic kickback generators, I have mentioned to a couple of doctors that I might like to try the dessicated stuff as an alternative. Ooooh yeah, I know what you mean about being treated like an “internet idiot.” They took PATRONIZING to a whole new level, looked at me like i had 3 heads, etc…ad nauseaum…
WOW! A doctor who actually gave you that stuff without putting up a fight! RADICAL!!! BTW let us know how you feel on the new stuff.
Fab – All I can say is WOOHOOOOOO!!! That doctor is a keeper! It’s nice when they listen, eh? As far as Gynos, though, I’d rather not go there. It’s supposed to be time for my annual, and to be honest, I haven’t gone for the longest time, ‘cuz the very first time (and the only other time after that) I got it done, it hurt SO BAD, I literally screamed. And even worse, the doctor (an older woman the first time, 2nd time was an Army doctor when I was trying to get in – didn’t) just walked away, didn’t say anything, not even “shut up!” Nothing. I don’t know if other women have had that happen, whether fat or thin, but it makes me want to go nowhere near a gyno’s office for ANY test. (‘Cuz they wanna do the mammogram, too. Funsies.) If I DO get up the nerve to go to the doc’s, I want to first of all talk to him about everything and see if we can figure it out before he wields a speculum anywhere near me. If I sense any sort of condescending attitude of “get over it, you big baby”, I am out of there never to return, I don’t care how many reminders he sends after me. Like I said before, has anyone ever had this problem, how’d you handle it and what results came from it?
Dizzy, I’m so sorry to hear about your gyno experiences. While I have to say that aside from the (usual?) embarrassment and shame fat women are made to feel when getting up on that uncomfortably narrow and awkward gyno exam table, I have not experienced any pain during a routine exam. There is a feeling of ‘pressure’, for sure, but no pain.
You have the right idea! Totally explain to the doctor or their staff (ahead of time) your experiences and pain issues, and ask what they can suggest for a pain-free exam. They might prescribe a mild sedative 30-40 minutes prior to the appointment. (my doctor did that before my cervical biopsy). But at the very least they should be aware and extremely sensitive to your pain issues and proceed with caution and gentleness! PLEASE don’t let it go too long…. you have a right to preventative care, don’t deny yourself the opportunity- you deserve the best health you can fight for! 🙂
Today was the epic shit day of all epic shit days.
Last night? (Skip this paragraph if you’re grossed out by medical talk of a GI nature) I was sound asleep until I woke up with stomach bile coming out my nose. I thought it was a nosebleed until I got into the bathroom.
I googled it and it says that it’s a symptom of GERD and could lead to esophageal cancer if not treated eventually. Immediately I start freaking out – I am literally incapable of giving up soda, I will get crippling migraines if I do; damn near EVERYTHING seems to be acidic except fruits and vegetables and I have severe texture issues with a lot of fruits, etc. But the scariest thing by FAR is that I should probably go to a doctor and get this looked at, as my esophagus could be damaged. And I have neither the money nor the sanity points. Because hey, it’s digestive – it must be because I’m a fat fuck, right?
And after freaking out all day about this stuff, I read an article about the whole Abercrombie & Fitch thing where the CEO openly admitted to being exclusionary … right there were the skinny people whining about how “exclusionary” Torrid and Lane Bryant are. Right, because I can just walk into Express and get jeans in my size.
Fuck everything.
I hear ya. But actually they sell the meds for GERD over the counter these days; in fact my dr. wrote me a prescription for Prilosec and my insurance refused to pay for it because it is now available over the counter. So i just pay out of pocket for the store brand (generic name OMEPRAZOLE). I take one a day for 2-3 weeks and I’m OK for about 3 months, then it starts acting up again so i do another 2-3 week course of treatment. Try this on your own and if you don’t start feeling better afer a few days of it, then go to the dr.
I’ve had acid reflux flare-ups in the past; I now take 2 Prilosec every night and it still doesn’t always fix it. The only thing that’s worked with any regularity is Pantoprazole, which is a prescription and costs $110 per month without insurance. That’s more than half my unemployment check, and while I’m autistic, I’m apparently not autistic enough to get on disability.
oh crap!!! sorry to hear about that!
Hi everybody. Good news/bad news update. First of all, 2012 was a major hallmark year for me when I achieved one of my major life goals. Ever since 1992 when i first discovered Size Acceptance, my New Year’s Resolution has been the same: THIS is gonna be the year when I actually meet, live and in person, a “FA” or guy who at least doesn’t “mind” fat women. I had been reading about them in magazines like BBW and Dimensions, and hearing about them on talk shows like Maury Povich, but never met anyone in person like that. So, in October 2012 I met my first FA in person. Now for the bad news: In May 2013 I discovered that just because he likes fat women, that doesn’t make him any less of an ASSHOLE than any other guy. The question I’m wrestling with now: Do I jump right back in and start man shopping again or just accept the fact that this life was intended to be a SOLO performance and move on???
I just wanted to add something to my earlier rant about FINALLY meeting an FA only to find out his FAness does not preclude him being a douchebag. I have read a few other comments here about us fatties being told to be less “picky” about men etc… Well, I really think I carried this a bit too far. Because I have been rejected so many times because of my size, I made it a point not to reject HIM for something I was very, very tempted to reject him for immediately. He had a physical trait that might sound trivial to anybody else, but I found totally repulsive–very spitty lips! He often had a “spit blob” stuck to his lip (you know, the big white blob which forms a “string” between your top & bottom lips when you talk) which I couldn’t look at without wanting to throw up. And I even let him kiss me, fighting back my revulsion over his wet, drippy, excessively spitty lips! Looking back on the whole experience, I feel absolutely horrible about myself–that I whored myself to this guy just because he’s an alleged FA (although looking back at a few snide comments he made, I even sort of doubt that). In thinking of his spitty lips as repulsive, was I being just as appearance-based shallow as all the guys who have rejected me because I’m fat? Or was I a whore for letting a guy I found repulsive kiss me and grope me? Either way, I feel HORRIBLE about myself and don’t expect to get over it any time soon.
You’re not a whore, you’re a human being who wants to find love and affection, and the appeal of an FA can be strong for a fat woman who has had a hard time finding a mate. But you’re right, there are just as many douchebags among FAs as “regular” guys. In fact, I’d say the chances are slightly higher because a lot of FAs I’ve encountered have an attitude that they’re doing fat women a favor. If someone here told you to be less picky about guys, you should ignore them (I hope it wasn’t me!). Despite the fairy tale, you probably won’t find a prince kissing frogs. If your gut instinct is to be repulsed by a guy (even if it’s spitty lips), pay attention to that gut instinct. If you’re up for it, give the guy a chance to prove that he’s worth spitty lips, but if you never get that feeling, don’t push yourself to do it just because you’re afraid your options are limited.
Finding love is hard, BBDee, and when you’re lonely you can feel this near-panic driven need to find the right person. And what people will tell you (myself included) is that old, frustrating advice that love takes time, and it will find you when you least expect it. But that doesn’t help you today, facing the unknown future and feeling like it will never happen. All I can say is that you should use this time to focus on bettering yourself and loving yourself because that is the best preparation for finding a mate that I can think of. Because even if you find the perfect guy out there, if you aren’t happy by yourself, then you won’t be happy with him. It’s hard, and it can feel like a never-ending process, but most people do eventually find someone who complements them and gives them all the love they’ve been needing, and then all the time you spent waiting will seem worth it.
I hope this helps, and I wish you the best in your search.
Peace,
Shannon
Hi Shannon,
I thank you for your kind words of support. Just to clarify, nobody here told me to be “less picky”, thank God! Just quoting what others have shared that they have been told elsewhere, as I have. In fact, the first guy I ever really thought I was in love with told me something like that. We were BFF’s and I secretly wanted more but due to a long, boring list of circumstances, I could never let him know how I really felt. So he was my go-to friend who I always talked to about everything, including whatever guy I was dating at the time. The “real” reason I was never satisfied with any of these guys was that they were not HIM… but anyway, I was bending this guy’s ear once about another guy I was dating, in this case I was not happy with him because he was dumber than a box of rocks. My “true love” told me I should seek professional help to accept the fact that I’m just not that great looking so I need to learn to accept the fact that the guys I attract won’t be that great. And my lovelife has been downhill from there! I do hope that “spitty lips” is not a totally superficial reason to be turned off by a guy, like them being turned off by a fat woman. It was fear of being superficial that made me put up with his disgusting spitty lips long enough to see that what was under his “nice guy” façade as shown on his online profile, was way more disgusting. He comes off as this nice, kindhearted guy but when you get to know him a little bit, you can see he’s nothing but a pathetic, burned out shell of a human being with nothing left inside but ashes of racism, misogyny and overall indifference to other people and life in general. BTW, this episode also makes me reconsider my rejection of “dumb” guys. Mr. Spitty Lips was highly intelligent…in fact one of very few guys I’ve ever dated who may be smarter than me… but if you use your brains for nothing but prejudice and hatred, what good are they? I’ve had my fill of brainiacs after this one. Give me a good-hearted, fun DUMB guy like Woody from Cheers any day!!!
Oh, and to clarify another thing, I’m NOT looking for “THE ONE”. In fact I long ago stopped believing there is any such thing. I think so many people have done themselves a terrible disservice buying into the myth that there is “one” right person for them, their “soulmate.” What a load of crap that is! So you find someone who connects with you on all those deeper levels, and fulfills some higher purpose, etc…then 6 months later you hate the sonofabitch because he squeezes the toothpaste in the middle!!! No, I’m not looking for my one true love. I feel like at age 50, I’m past the stage of wanting to find a “mate”…I’m too old to make babies and have lived alone too long to adjust to sharing my living quarters. I am really only looking for a “Friends with Benefits” relationship. But all I ask is that he pass the “Friends” test before I give out any benefits! Is that too much to ask??
CC – I just signed a petition against Prada on behalf of a single mom who was fired and then is being counter-sued by the idiot company simply because she called them out for discrimination on behalf of co-workers who she was told to let go because they were (get this!) “old, fat, ugly and disgusting, and don’t fit the corporate Prada image”. Is that fucked up or what? So yeah, I can imagine these other companies trying to get away with that same shit. And what doesn’t help are all these skinny people whining cuz “Hey, I can go shop at ANY store that’s rich and fancy, and allows me in here and caters to my every whim and doesn’t look at me with a sneer, but these stores that try to cater to plus-size women who don’t have as much choice, they’re discriminating cuz they don’t cater to me, too!” Boo hoo
And it’s disgusting if your doctor tries to blame your weight for everything; you may be fat, but if he/she does that, they’re STUPID! Tell your doctor to treat you like a HUMAN BEING, not a fat fuck, cuz you deserve respect. I hope you feel better.
Update on my life – so, my acid reflux has not gone down at all. I’ve started to take some steps, especially since my roommate needed an emergency appendectomy two nights ago and it turns out she also has a fatty liver. (She’s ok now, recuperating at home.)
I’m not too worried about my “main dish” options – fish, chicken, turkey, pasta. But beyond that … there’s lists of acid reflux food and I just hate so much of it (a lot of it because of my Aspie texture issues). Beans make me vomit. So do bananas. Ginger and parsley are spices, not snacks. Celery isn’t a fucking food, it’s solid water. Oatmeal’s texture is repulsive. I’ve never had fennel, I’ll admittedly try that. Just … changing one’s diet is hard enough, and having restrictions due to my yes-I-really-will-throw-up-if-I-eat-that-just-try-me autism makes it worse. I want to ust throw in the towel – but then I feel the acid, and I remember I could get fucking esophageal cancer if GERD isn’t treated.
Crackers and chips are simple, small and easy to eat. And so many things I love – chili, chocolate, soda, etc, even healthier things like the natural apple juice we buy, ffs – are just so acidic. I feel cheated, as stupid as it sounds. What’s the point of eating if you can’t enjoy it?
Of course, I could just be stressed all to hell and wanting to (strictly metaphorically) die. I have no idea.
I need to tell someone, somewhere about this. My story is completely unremarkable and sounds so similar to so many I’ve read on this site and others, but I need to tell it anyway. I’d also like to thank everyone on this site and elsewhere in the FA movement for all their strength and eloquence–reading your words has helped me in ways I can’t even describe. You are all so wonderful.
I learned I was fat when I was 14. I had always been a large child–I was a 10lb, 24-inch newborn, and I had been the tallest in my class for years until I stopped growing at 5’4″. I was the first to grow breasts. I developed quickly, and it never bothered me much as a child that I was chubbier than everyone else, because I was also taller and more “mature”. My family is also entirely made up of fat people, so I figured it was in my genes to always be a little chubby. But that was nothing to worry about.
But at 14, I went to the doctor for my yearly checkup. I was told I was at risk for becoming seriously overweight and even *le gasp* obese, if I didn’t watch myself. I was 5’4″ and 150lbs, just enough to tip me into an “overweight” BMI.
I was also a competitive swimmer who did 5-day-a-week, 3 1/2 hour workouts as part of her swim team.
I’m sure you’ve heard the complaints about BMI and athletes–muscle is very heavy, so athletes’ BMIs are skewed way high (which isn’t even getting into the complete invalidity of the BMI, but…). This was definitely the case with me, but a Very Serious Doctor had told me I was overweight and fat so I believed it. I internalized that I was omg very ugly fat obese sick.
My weight stayed stable for a while, until (a) I was diagnosed with major depression and (b) I quit the swim team, partially probably because of my depression. After that, I gained almost 100 lbs in two years. And I didn’t notice. My internalized body image was so obscenely screwed up that I literally did not notice, even though I had to buy new clothes. I gained 100 lbs and my reflection still matched my internal image, because my internal image of myself was so distorted.
I look back at photos of myself from my early teen years and can’t believe anyone would ever tell me I was fat. I have always been muscular, and being a swimmer made those muscles grow. In 8th grade or so, we did some sort of experiment that involved measuring various body parts. I had larger biceps than anyone, even the football jocks, by quite a bit. And back then I was all muscle. So I certainly wasn’t thin, and no amount of diet and exercise will ever make me thin–I could never wear size 0 jeans because I’m pretty sure my pelvis (the actual BONE) is larger around than 24 inches–but I was athletic and strong, at least in body. Mentally I was a wreck, partially because of several life events, partially because of my mental illness, but I believe partially too because of internalized fat hatred.
Boys asked me out and I snubbed them, because I was certain they were asking me out as some sort of elaborate prank. I was certain my friends were laughing at me behind my back and only kept me around to make themselves look better and for amusement. I was certain my college roommates, despite their friendly overtures, secretly hated me. The kicker, for me, was that I was constantly complimented on how confident I was, how my self-esteem was so high and so healthy, how I didn’t let others get me down. I was falling apart while people told me how strong I was.
These problems started when I was 17 or so. I’m now nearly 24 and only now starting to recover from them. I’m glad these communities have helped me recognize and start to deal with these problems so soon–I didn’t have to wait decades like some–but I am still furious over years of my life being so twisted and overshadowed by something as stupid as my weight. I’m glad I’ve only been on a single diet, instead of entering the endless cycle of yo-yo dieting and all the various hazards that entails.
Every time someone spouts off about how unhealthy fat is I literally want to bash their face in. My body is as healthy and strong at 220lbs as it was at 150, and even if it weren’t, by far more damage was done to me by internal and external fat-shaming than could ever be done by hypertension and diabetes. We can fix hypertension and diabetes will some simple medications and dietary changes. We can’t fix minds nearly as easily.
I also want to smack anyone who says what people say doesn’t matter, you just need a higher self-esteem, and you shouldn’t care what others think. My mother has told me she specifically attempted to raise me not to correlate my self-worth with my body–she tried to never tell me how good clothes looked on me or how pretty I looked, and instead praised my accomplishments and abilities. And I was always told by *everyone* how confident I was. And I still succumbed. I’m not conceited enough to think I have the healthiest self-esteem in the world, but I feel like before my depression caused a giant collapse in my feeling of worth I was much more confident than many. And my depression itself raises the issue that not everyone can maintain superhuman levels of strength every day, and no one should be expected to. And part of it too is that it’s damn hard not to believe a message that’s slowly reinforced every day.
I know I’m an “inbetweener” and I have never been directly bullied or assaulted because of my weight, but fat hatred has still had an enormous negative impact on my life. Fat hatred doesn’t need to be violent to cause damage.
I also don’t mean to glorify my strength–it’s just that my strength is the only part of my body I’ve been able to be proud of for so long. I know being strong doesn’t make me better than anyone, just stronger.
Nof,
Welcome to FFF. I don’t know what else to say except you have found yourself in a safe place here at FFF to vent, discuss, laugh and cry with the rest of us. It sure will be a good day for all people when *everyone* consciously realizes just how negative feedback and ridicule work against us. Not just fat people, either- ALL people. Especially kids who depend so much on adult feedback and guidance.
Again, welcome! 😀 Hope you like it here and stick around a long time!
Nof,
We all have stories, and we all faced challenges! Hearing other people’s struggles helps us know we aren’t alone, or wrong. So thank you! It’s so hard for moms to know how to help daughters. My mom tried to keep junk food out of the house, but never commented on how much I was eating, because her mom was the opposite! My aunt was very much underweight growing up, and a picky eater. So my grandma had special food that only my aunt could eat. My mom, who was on the chubby side of average, was told she couldn’t eat that special, fattening food.
All moms, pretty much, think what they are doing is best for their children’s mental health. But sometimes it doesn’t work out!
CC,
How are you feeling? I hope you’re doing much much better…. Keep us posted!
Still acidic. Can’t afford a doctor. Roommate is having actual serious health problems that have required two trips to the hospital since her operation. Stressed to fuck.
Aww CC, that blows. Have you tried natural digestive enzymes? I’ve read that pineapple & papaya enzyme tablets or capsules work the best for acid reflux issues.
I’m sure they are probably a little pricey but might be worth a try. They can be found at any decent natural foods /health food store, and even some large chain drugstores with a decent herbal section…. Good luck C.
Sorry for your roommate too. It sucks when an operation causes just as much havoc as the original illness does. Hope she starts healing soon….
I don’t mean to sound hostile, but that would require money.
Tonight, roommate couldn’t breathe, and took herself to the hospital. I’m scared … I have a pounding headache, I don’t know what’s wrong with her, and I’m feeling near the end of my rope. I know this isn’t the place for it, but I would do anything to have a job with insurance again so I could see my therapist. I can’t be my roommate’s nurse, chauffeur, maid, everything, and focus on me. I feel powerless.
CC – Please consider going to the hospital to see/be with your roommate, and while there ask to see someone from Social Services. Explain your (dire) situation, and your own medical and psychological needs, and ask for help. There must be something they can do, even if it’s just provide nursing support once your roommate gets home. Also, have you applied for “charity care” at the hospital and/or local clinic? I know that charity care has gotten me through a few of my own health issues in the recent past…. Everything from blood work to a D&C and other issues. I hope things work out….
Hi CC,
Saying a quick prayer for you because that’s all I can do. I know how overwhelmed you must feel, I went thru a similar situation a few years ago with my very sick mother and a very sick roommate at the same time, and the whole thing fell on me. But I got thru it–you do get breaks here and there when you least expect it, and you find out you are way stronger than you ever thought you could be. You will be in my thoughts and prayers. Keep us posted!
I simply have to recommend this TED talk by Peter Attia: “Is the obesity crisis hiding a bigger problem? ” Check it out at ted.com as an instance of a doctor who starts off arrogant and learns some compassion.
I’m glad he learned some compassion. MORE doctors need to learn that! I think that’s the “bigger problem” the so-called obesity crisis is hiding – a lack of compassion and a glut of stupid people with bigger mouths than brains.
Just surprised and shocked how my observations of a lack of size diversity, even when delivered in an upbeat way, are consistently met with venom.
How do you do it?
Fab here… (Oh geeze! she’s back again!)
Yes, I’m back with another medical related issue.
I swear, I think FFF needs a whole separate section dedicated to medical issues/advice/information for fat folks… but anyway-
If anyone cares to read upwards from this point, you’ll see a few discussions regarding the health issues I’ve been dealing with lately, including ‘dead thyroid’ and then post- menopausal & gyno issues.
Well, because of all these things going on in the last few months, I’ve been to a few (new) doctors – several times each. Personal thyroid investigation has resulted in NEW medication (Natural Dessicated Thyroid) and while there is still some adjusting going on for dosage, I’m very happy with this new medication!
The gyno issue will be resolved next Tuesday, when I go in hospital for a complete hysterectomy.
That’s right; Good-bye utie, and the egg baskets on each side. Don’t need them anymore, they are causing problems now at my age (57) so that’s that.
I’m having the robotic da Vinci operation. (Google it, it’s pretty cool, less physically traumatizing, and works especially well on obese/fat women. I’ll let you know how it goes when it’s over and I’ve had a few days post op to think about it overall.)
Now, on to my latest .. whatever you want to call it: Diabetes. Yes, the dreaded “D” word has been bandied about by nearly every single doctor and nurse I’ve come in contact with since seeking out new docs and treatments for the last 6 months.
I’ve heard; “I want to run blood work to check for diabetes…” “Have you been diagnosed with diabetes?” “Are you diabetic?” “When was the last time you were checked for diabetes?” And finally, just last week; “Your tests conclude that you are definitely ‘pre-diabetic’ – and maybe even diabetic…. I want to discuss medications with you as soon as you’re recovered from your surgery.”
Never have I had a glucose reading over 90-99, even without fasting – ever! – until about 6 months ago! WTF?
I feel like I’ve just had a voodoo HEX put on my ass; they kept expecting it, and wishing it on me- and now look! Dammit. And why are we jumping right to meds for a “pre” diabetes condition?? I don’t like the sounds of that…
OK, so I decided to take my health matters into my own hands for now!
I told my doc that I will not discuss diabetes meds with her until I’ve tried other methods of lowering my glucose levels.
“I’ll change my eating habits, I’ll force myself to exercise more, I’ll monitor my glucose levels for a few weeks, and THEN we’ll see how it goes. I do not want to take any more meds on a daily basis.” She agreed.
So I already started monitoring glucose levels for a couple days so far. They are all over the place- between 112 (5-6 hrs since eating) to 186 (2 hrs after a decent meal) to 216 (about 2 hrs after eating – an admittedly- carby meal). First thing this morning, before any food or even coffee – it was 129.
Now, here I am, feeling so shitty. Why? Because now I’m the epitome of the classic, stereotypical, Diabetic-Fattie. 😦
I feel the shame and blame just hovering over my head like a big ol’ shit-cloud…. *sigh*
Would any of you have any words of encouragement or links to positive-based diabetes information? So far I found these:
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046739.php
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/
If it helps: diabetes isn’t caused by eating “bad”. If I may quote Michelle over at FatNutritionist: “Diabetes is a malfunction of the PANCREAS and the cells of your body, not your appetite or your mouth or your diet. Even the goddamn American Diabetes Association says so.” Diabetes doesn’t mean you screwed up. It doesn’t mean you’re no longer allowed in the FA club. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad, bad person who did bad things and are now being punished by a bad disease. All it means is that your pancreas are having some trouble, and you’ve got to help them out a bit.
Also: supposedly 40% of Americans are ‘prediabetic’. You are not alone.
Good luck on the surgery! I hope it helps.
Thanks Nof, for the support and encouragement…. 🙂 Much appreciated. Yeah, I’m really dreading having to admit that I have diabetes (when that time comes) to family and/or friends. I just *know* the sympathetic-but-I-knew-it looks I’m going to get, and all the advice pouring forth about losing weight and how that’s the answer to diabetes. Ugh. So not looking forward to that.
Fab – I would recommend showing those smug know-it-alls what the Fat Nutritionist said and leave it at that. If they start on the “we knew it all along” bit, you should ask “How would you like it if you got, say, lung cancer from all that smoking you do. Would you like me to come around and kick YOU when you’re down? ‘Cuz that’s exactly what you’re doing, even if you try to coat it with ‘But – I’m so concerned about you!’ Yeah, heard that song and dance before!”
Hi, Fab, I don’t know if you read my comments about my dog being diagnosed with diabetes (and, believe me, she ate the best food and exercised a lot), but it was interesting to hear the CONVENTIONAL vet saying that the stress caused by a heat wave we had may have been the last straw in the life of a dog who has had incredible stress. I have yet to hear an M.D. talk about stress and diabetes. It makes sense. Stress causes a rise in cortisol (unless you’re like me, and your adrenals are so exhausted you have low cortisol), cortisol causes the blood sugar to rise, and so begins the cycle. It sounds to me like you have had horrible stress in your life in recent months (years?) and this may be contributing to your higher glucose. I wish you all the best for your surgery, and it will be interesting to see if your blood sugar normalizes afterward. Hope you feel better soon!
Minor pet peeve that I just have to let out: Dancing With the Stars will not. shut. up. about Amber Riley and how a “big girl” can dance. I appreciate that we as fat people should be happy when we’re shown to be competent at something … but I also don’t want it ALL about weight. She’s a talented singer and dancer who HAPPENS to be big, and if DWTS could make it about that, that would be much better.
And also, if they gave Tristan Macmanus a partner who might last more than a week, that’d be good too … <<
I started tapering off my sertraline prescription nearly two months ago, and have been off it entirely for not quite two weeks. My depression had been worsening and I was starting to develop bipolar-like symptoms, and I’d read that antidepressants could actually cause depression and bipolar in some people. My doctor wouldn’t listen and wanted to put me on wellbutrin (“you’ll lose some weight too!”), so I took myself off.
And I’ve been feeling much, much better. The haze of “why bother?” that tainted everything I did vanished. I’m been happy for the first time in years. I started cooking and running and lifting weights again. I re-read the archives at FatNutritionist and have started really trying to practice competent eating. I am in such a good place mentally right now, and I hope it lasts and isn’t just backlash from going off. I want to *do* things again.
But I’ve also very suddenly gained somewhere in the range of 30 pounds. I have stretch marks all over my body and my clothes don’t fit right anymore. I’m assuming the stress of the sertraline withdrawal caused it, but I can’t find anything on sertraline withdrawal specifically causing weight gain (but then again supposedly weight gain isn’t a side effect of sertraline, and it definitely was for me, so I don’t exactly trust the writeups of it). Part of me is angry at my body for casting a pall on something that’s otherwise very positive, and part of me is worried something is wrong.
But most of me is angry that I can’t discuss it with anyone. No one will understand. They’ll just say “Well, have you tried X diet?” or “Have you tried Crossfit” or some other nonsense. I’m scared because my body is suddenly, rapidly changing and I don’t know why or when it will stop. I’m angry because my body has never, ever reacted to anything the way ‘common sense’ says it should. I don’t want diet tips; I just want someone to listen to me and to believe me. It shouldn’t be that hard.
FWIW: Back in the day I tried Wellbutrin. It had some impressively icky side effects and I sure didn’t lose any weight from it.
Congratulations on feeling so much better. I hope you’re enjoying it and it lasts.
Hi everybody, I don’t know whether I’m looking for coping advice or more like just looking to vent, but after all this section is called “Let It Out”…so here goes…
My so-called BFF is on one of her obnoxious “This time I’m going to lose the weight for good” kicks. I just got off the phone with her and expended much energy to keep from puking as she went thru this whole big speech AGAIN…
“My doctors keep telling me it’s this big belly that keeps me diabetic and keeps my arteries clogged, and I started with a personal trainer at my gym today and he said he’s also a nutritionist. He showed me before and after pictures of all the people he’s helped. He asked me how much I wanted to lose and I said 150 lbs. He said he could do that. He gave me a list of all the stuff I should be eating and all the stuff I shouldn’t be eating and he’s going to take me shopping so I have all the ‘right’ things in my house…
Then he asked me for my ‘wish list’. I said I am so sick of being FAT and SICK! I want to change my life! I don’t want to get up depressed every morning because I hate my job so much and don’t feel good enough about myself to look for another one. And i’m so sick of being ALONE! I want a boyfriend who’s not a complete loser…”
At this point I just couldn’t help it, I HAD to interrupt her to say “You still think losing weight will get you a boyfriend who’s a not a complete loser?” And I started ripping into this whole mentality of thinking that you have to jump through all these hoops to become “acceptable” enough to “deserve” a guy who’s not a loser, that if you don’t lose all this weight you get what you deserve???
But she had no comprehension of what I was trying to say. She said “I don’t know why I even bother telling you these things when you can’t even be happy for me! I know you’re happy with being heavy blah blah blah, but I’m NOT! I don’t want to keep being so overweight that when I go on vacation I can’t go sightseeing because I have to sit down and rest every 10 minutes! If I don’t lose this weight I’m going to DIE, my doctor said so! If YOU’RE happy being like that, that’s fine, I’ll still love you anyway [yeah, right??] but you could at least offer me some kind of encouragement that i’m making some positive changes in my life!”
OOOOOH God, here we go again. I remember last time she lost a lot of weight on the Atkins diet (about 100 lbs but kept it off about as long as most people do) she got so self-righteous and obnoxious about the whole thing. “I’m so glad *I* don’t have to be fat and disgusting anymore!”
This is the same friend who has been coming to visit me 1-2 times a year for the last 3 years who I banished after last fall’s visit, when she went on and on and on about all the stuff she “couldn’t eat” because of her doctor’s orders that I didn’t buy any groceries for her visit, she said we’d go shopping when she got here, then once she did there was always an excuse why we couldn’t get grocieries and cook at home but had to eat out… And you should have seen what happened to her “doctor’s orders” at all the restaurants. Anything I could think of to cook at home was like “oh my god are you trying to kill me? my dr. said I couldn’t eat that!!!” but at all the restaurants she ate lots of bread, crakcers in her soup, pasta entrees, and ALWAYS had dessert! I AM SOOOOO SICK OF HEARING ABOUT ALL THIS!!!!!
Hey, if anybody wants to take up exercising and eating healthier, more power to them! We ALL, thin fat or inbetween, have plenty of room for improvement and anyone would benefit from this. But don’t make it into another obnoxious, self-righteous holier/healthier than thou crusade!!!
I need to LOSE her once and for all, I’ve tried but can’t bring myself to be mean enough to say flat-out GET LOST… My big Achilles heel with her is that I feel sorry for her because she doesn’t have many friends even though the reason why is pretty obvious. And right now *I* don’t have many friends either…not because people don’t want to be with me (if I really wanted that I’m sure I could find it) but because I don’t want to be with THEM!!! I just don’t want any more FRIENEMIES…
Dump her and dump her fast. If she wants more friends maybe she shouldn’t be so self-absorbed and judgmental. We have to do, ultimately, what is best for us, and if she is so two-faced as to say “I’ll still love you” while ragging on being “fat and disgusting”, she needs to be out of your life.
Yeah, you’re right, I need to think of my own sanity and peace of mind for a change…
Not only does she totally make me sick with her judgmental attitude about other fat people like myself, but her absolute hypocrisy. I have tried to instill some common-sense, HAES based ideas about improving her eating and exercise habits without obsessing about her weight (she weighed 120 lbs when we were in college, which was 30+ years ago, and she is hell-bent on getting back down to that weight). I am trying to keep her from setting herself up for failure AGAIN. But she totally ridicules the whole idea of HAES…”maybe YOU’RE happy the way you are, but I’m not!” and therefore continues to yo-yo herself to an early grave! About 12 years ago she lost about 100 lbs on Atkins, was insufferably obnoxious about it, and of course gained it all back within about 18 months. But she continues to rhapsodize about how wonderful Atkins was for her. I keep telling her “if it’s so damn great, why don’t you go back on it?” for which she has nothing but the lamest pack of excuses…
This is the same person who made me go thru the drivethru at Burger King 3 times so she could slurp down 3 large chocolate shakes one right after the other…
Now her latest is having this personal trainer/nutritionist. I really think if people followed common sense/HAES principles, who the hell would need these people? We all know what we “should” do to be healthier, right? But she considers hurting from head to toe from her trainer’s workout some kind of status symbol or badge of honor. I really think she is a very weak-willed person who will only do ANYTHING if some “expert” or “authority figure” tells her to do it.
Although she will gladly defy said authority figures to make a point or lay a guilt trip. Like her sugar skyrocketed because a couple of months ago she stopped taking her diabetes pills because she was “soooo depressed” she didn’t care if she lived or died… This was after I sent her a very carefully thought out letter telling her what I thought of all her self-centered, obnoxious behavior last time she was here and that therefore she is NOT invited up again this year. She made it a point SEVERAL times to tell me the reason she quit taking her diabetes pills was because after that letter she figured she had no one left in the world who cared about her and what was the point… And since I did not outright say “I never want to see you again” she is still trying to guilt me into inviting her back up here again… “I miss you soooo much…I wish we could get together again…”
IF I ever consent to have her up here again, a ground rule will be NO DIET TALK but I doubt if that would work. I’ve told her to keep her mouth shut about politics, since we are on opposite ends of that spectrum, and I do NOT bring up anything political around her in an attempt to preserve the friendship and respect her beliefs, but of course she can’t extend me the same courtesy, has to get in her slams and digs about my political beliefs, candidates, etc… so I’d be totally naïve and stupid to think she would respect my beliefs about dieting.
I REALLY need to get rid of her but she literally has nobody else, and the really sad part is she is CLUELESS about why!!!
Follow-up to above frienemy story: Here we go again, the obnoxious “healthier than thou” crap is starting already. I just read her latest post on FB whining about going to shop for “healthy” food and how she just ached soooo bad all over from her workouts with her trainer…ad nauseam… I thought even the most unenlightened Health Nazi’s had declared “No pain/no gain” to be passé these days. She’s wearing her aches and pains from the workouts, and martyrdom over having to buy “healthy” food at the grocery store, like MERIT BADGES to lord over everyone else! Oh please everybody admire me and envy me for all the wonderful things I’m doing to better myself!!!
Excuse me while I go puke…
BBDee – lol! Poor little fitness martyr, huh? She might as well be walking around carrying a cross and whipping herself while pouting in this ‘poor little me’ fashion. Maybe she’ll be included in the Jenny Craig Calender of Saints. Maybe when she emails you again, you can email back ‘Who’s this? Must be one of those wannabes trying out to be a Big Loser. This is the ‘I couldn’t care less’ website’.
So does this person have any positive traits at all? (I don’t recall you mentioning any.) If not, what are you waiting for?
Well…yeah, actually in those rare moments when she’s not obsessing about her weight, she is a very intelligent, creative and even fun person. Which is why I rant so much about her here where it’s relatively safe, because I get so FRUSTRATED with her for the vast waste of her considerable resources on such an unworthy cause! And to directly answer your other question, what am I waiting for? That’s an easy one! I’m waiting for myself to get cured of extreme codependency! As in “if I dumped her, what would she do without me?”
Unfortunately, even intelligent, creative people can treat their friends like shit. Not setting myself up here as some martyr: I’ve been on both ends of the my-friend-is-an-asshole equation, just like most other adults. I’ve had friends dump me, and vice versa. Shit happens, and even good aesthetics and a functioning intellect only go so far if the rest of one’s personality is a problem for others.
But… what she does is not actually your responsibility. She’s a grown woman, and from what you’ve written about her “investing” in a trainer and such, I trust that her material circumstances allow her to be relatively comfortable. So it’s not as if you’re the only thing between her and a life on the street. It’s possible that your dropping her might snap her out of the unpleasant state of mind she’s in. Or it might not. Either way, it would be helpful to you to let her go, and that’s what’s most important here. I hope I haven’t been too prying or preachy here. I do wish you good luck.
How bang-your-head-against-the-wall frustrating. I hope venting made you feel better. I don’t know what you should do. She doesn’t sound like a two-faced frenemy. She sounds needy.
What should you do with a needy person? As a compassionate, loyal person you don’t want to abandon someone in pain just because it is causing you inconvenience–that would be despicable fair-weather friendship. On the other hand, some people are like black holes that just take and take all the support you pour into them without having any effect at all. And it’s maddening because you see how they’re their own worst enemy and they’re causing their own problems, but they can’t see this no matter how clearly you try to explain it and they go on and on about how unfair the whole world is to them.
It defeats me. I’ve given up on a few people like that. I know one other person who has tendencies along those lines but has kept them in check over the years and has been a better friend to me than I have been to her. The important thing is not to doubt yourself. If you can be friends with her, great. If you can’t, well, you offered friendship as honestly as you could and that was a good thing to do. Maybe someone more socially skilled than I will have better advice. It’s just hard, you know? Mental problems are so unfixable. You think, if she would just do X or Y then she’d be happy, but she never will do X or Y.
Hello Happy Spider! Usually spiders creep me out but you sound like a great credit to your species 😉
Wow, you understand my situation better than I do! Yes, she is capital-N NEEDY, and this behavior is about way more than the weight obsession. She calls me almost every day asking “What should I do about this?” and “What did he mean by that?” She was extremely dependent on her parents and they are both gone now, so somehow she has glommed onto me expecting me to be a substitute Mommy. And I didn’t nip it in the bud when I should have because i’m so accustomed to playing the Mommy role. I have never experienced pregnancy, labor pains, etc. but still have been everybody’s Mommy since I was 6 years old.
Yes, all that neediness is extremely draining! I just want to shake her and say “YOU ARE OVER 50, IT’S ABOUT TIME YOU LEARNED TO THINK FOR YOURSELF!!!” but it’s so hard for me to get tough with ANY of my children…
But I could negotiate that aspect. It’s the total self-absorption and lack of respect for my views that really get to me. I have been telling her my beliefs about BBW/Size Acceptance/HAES for 20 years now, and I have asked her to respect my beliefs enough not to proselytize about dieting around me. Especially when she lectures me about how I shouldn’t eat grapes or bananas because there’s too much sugar in them and then she turns around and scarfs down 3 chocolate milkshakes.
She does the same kind of thing with politics and religion. Yes, in some ways she is a good friend, but she always thinks she has to convert everyone to her way of thinking. Like she told me about some bumpersticker or t-shirt or something she thought was funny and I did NOT…if it was me and the other party was not amused, I would just drop it and move on, but she had to keep arguing and badgering that it WAS funny and why couldn’t I see that, till I threatened to hang up if she didn’t shut up.
But the bottom line is, she has been part of my life for so many years, to tell her to GET LOST would feel like disowning a member of my family. But still, there are times I wonder how much more I can take. At least I was able to stand my ground enough to NOT relent to her inviting herself up here for another “vacation from HELL” like she did last fall.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE…
Hi folks, here I go again, still putting up with this crap from Ms. Needy. I really need to chop her loose but trying to figure out how to just make like Paul Simon and “slip out the back, Jack…” just to get rid of her with no big confrontation. If I just tell her to “get lost” she will quit going to her personal trainer, quit taking her diabetes meds, etc… and it will be all my fault because she’s soooooo depressed that no one else cares about her. (she CAN’T see that this is because she has alienated everybody else).
The last straw was last night. She’s trying to talk me into going on this “Rock Boat” cruise and she went on and on about some of the musical acts who have been on it. She mentioned one musician in particular, and I had told her before that I do not like him because of his fat-bashing. She brought him up again and I said, “Look, I told you before, I don’t like him because he says disrespectful things about fat people…” and she cut me off right there and said in her most obnoxiously whiny tone, “Come on, you’re not going to start *that* again, are you? I’ve had a rough day, I don’t want to listen to that!” And I said, but I have to listen to you whine by the hours about how mean your personal trainer is when YOU chose to hire him, and you never give a thought to what kind of day I had and if I can deal with listening to you! And you KNOW my views about all this dieting crap anyway!!!
What is wrong with me? Why can’t I just tell her, once and for all, GET LOST!!!
If you sincerely believe that a prosperous, full-grown, financially secure woman’s life and health is somehow your responsibility, she has successfully manipulated you and will continue to do so for as long as you let her. This “friendship” is great for her, but clearly lousy for you.
If you don’t enjoy being held responsible for her actions and you don’t enjoy being manipulated, so the only way to make it stop is to cut her off. Period.
Hey, Happy Spider, your skills seem pretty good to me. I don’t recall exactly when after becoming severely disabled that I decided I could no longer have friends who take without giving, but I did. In one case, it was someone I really liked, but the sort of person who called you up saying she wanted to kill herself but who had zero sympathy for anything you might be going through. It’s just too difficult to cope with this as you age, particularly if your energy level is low. Interestingly, this woman thought people didn’t like her because she was “crazy.” Her craziness was what was so attractive about her, her creativity, her humor, etc. It was her self-absorption and lack of generosity that turned people off, and she seemed not to have a clue.
BBDee = I remember reading in a book for young people about these girls who said that they would rather have “friends” who love you to your face and then talk about you behind your back than be a “friendless loser”. I read that and thought “If those were my only choices – to be talked about by your so-called friends or just be alone – I go with ‘friendless loser’!” Who needs friends like that? With them, you won’t need enemies …
I agree…it took me many, many years to see things that way. It took me till I was well into my 30’s (I am now 51) to get some inkling that self-respect trumps friendship. In my teen and young adult years I would have jumped off a cliff for my frienemies, having been an unpopular, “nerdy” kid in high school and thinking that not having friends was the worst thing in the world. The last 10-12 years, especially, I have chopped loose several parasites who called themselves my friends. She is the last survivor.
Yeah, sometimes I get lonely, but I’ve been burned by so many a$$holes who drained me of money, time, self-respect and every other resource, that I’m becoming more and more like Rick of Casablanca who said I STICK MY NECK OUT FOR NO ONE! My anthem is Kelly Clarkson’s “Because of You”:
Because of you I never stray too far from the sidewalk,
Because of you I learned to play on the safe side so I don’t get hurt,
Because of you I find it hard to trust, not only me but everyone around me,
Because of you….
I am afraid…
BBDee – Too bad you couldn’t just show your “friend” the lyrics to that song and say “That’s how I feel around you”.
http://fiercefatties.com/2013/09/25/weight-stigma-awareness-week-almost-goes-unnoticed-by-busy-lady-wearing-pajamas/#comment-35265
Why is this okay? I said I was sorry, they reported me, and they keep wanting to hurt me. Why is that okay, when I got a talking to? I guess I’ll never be forgiven for my past. You may as well ban me, seems this person just won’t stop going after me until they’ve convinced me everyone would be better off if I were dead. It’s all my fault for thinking I could ever trust people to understand what I had gone through. They’ll just keep making me suffer forever, that’s what they want. I only wish I knew what they wanted to hear from me. Do they want me to being a monster? That I deserve rejection? That I am irredeemable? What ever they want me to say, I’ll say it.
Violetyoshi – I don’t know what you’re going thru that’s making u feel this way but U DON’T DESERVE IT! Keep strong, sister. We’re with u all the way!
Violetyoshi – the person ripping on you is a really unpleasant person who doesn’t seem to grasp the concept of tact. In the future I might suggest not airing your personal history on websites, as there are people like her who will only take it and use it against you.
You wrote a long, insightful comment way back when I wrote about Autism Speaks, and I know you’ve said you’re on the spectrum too. I think she’s speaking NT and you’re not, and she’s either too stupid, too mean or too uncaring to grasp that you’re talking at cross purposes. I cannot judge you on your past, given that we’ve all made mistakes.
Really Cara, we all make mistakes? I’ve certainly made mistakes, but chilling with white supremacists has never been one of them . I’d venture to guess that isn’t a random mistake that you’ve made either. I doubt you’ve ever been out for a walk, took a wrong turn, and then wound up at a skinhead rally with a sign that said “Niggers are a cancer upon human society.” (That’s from that ChimpOut site Yoshi used to hang out on)
Yoshi has issues that extend far, far past existing on the autism spectrum. And frankly taking her behavior and attributing it to her autism is insulting to other autistic people. She’s been banned by any number of communities either for or about people on the spectrum, it’s not as if she’s some special snowflake that all these NT people have picked on.
Just because she wails about being sorry and writes in a gracious manner when it suits her, doesn’t mean that she’s nice, it just as easily could mean that she’s manipulative.
But more about me, am I stupid? Let’s just say there’s ample evidence to prove most thoroughly that I am not stupid by any definition of the word. Mean? I certainly didn’t start out mean, I told the woman the damn fucking truth, that social justice doesn’t want her not because she’s fat or autistic, but because she’s got a history as a racist, and not a casual one either. But when she goes crying that I’m emotional abusive? Sure, can’t say I was particularly nice after that. Uncaring? If I was uncaring I wouldn’t have written anything at all.
Finally, of course you can judge someone on their past, their past in tandem with their current actions is all you can fucking judge someone on. How ridiculous, guess if I show up next week acting sweet as sugar, you’ll be delighted with me!
You are rude, nasty, and you don’t care how you talk to people at all. I find it hilarious that we are the ones routinely accused of having no empathy, but you, an alleged neurotypical, is the one going straight for the jugular and treating someone like shit, airing your dirty laundry on a site that has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LITTLE PERSONAL CRUSADE.
I have since been educated further on this person’s past history, and I apologize for jumping to conclusions that you were just being a bitch for shits and giggles. You were apparently being a bitch because you think you have the right to be, in public, on a website that has – again – NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LITTLE PERSONAL CRUSADE.
I really wonder if you aren’t on the autism spectrum yourself at times (which is NOT an insult); you take everything literally and G-d forbid someone make a tiny mistake; you’re all over them like white on rice. This person may be problematic, but I don’t think you own FFF; I think it’s Atchka’s choice as to who gets to stay here and comment. Apparently he doesn’t have a problem with your rudeness.
I have no personal crusade, you don’t even know who I am. I didn’t know shit about Yoshi until she went on this long tirade about the oppression olympics and how no one respects her in social justice. Then SHE posts a link with extensive linking to things that she has said in the past, which were pretty fucking damning. She did that looking for validation, looking for sympathy, hoping to get a pat on the back. You know what’s good advice Cara? Perhaps people shouldn’t air their dirty laundry if they expect that they’ll only receive supportive messages by doing so.
No big surprise here that Yoshi is not accepted in the social justice community, or literally just about any internet community at all.
“Why is this okay? I said I was sorry, they reported me, and they keep wanting to hurt me. Why is that okay, when I got a talking to? I guess I’ll never be forgiven for my past. You may as well ban me, seems this person just won’t stop going after me until they’ve convinced me everyone would be better off if I were dead. It’s all my fault for thinking I could ever trust people to understand what I had gone through. They’ll just keep making me suffer forever, that’s what they want. I only wish I knew what they wanted to hear from me. Do they want me to being a monster? That I deserve rejection? That I am irredeemable? What ever they want me to say, I’ll say it.”
I reported you? I didn’t report you to anything, are you trying to claim that I’m some other person that’s disagreed with you in the past? Because I’m certainly not, and the site owner is quite familiar with who I am. There’s no singular boogeyman that’s stalked you across the internet, there’s a literal crowd of people that are fed up with your behavior.
“this person just won’t stop going after me until they’ve convinced me everyone would be better off if I were dead”
Do you know what I tried to convince you of Yoshi? That backing off of social justice would be a good thing for you. You act as if the prospect of removing yourself social justice for any period of time is equivalent to dying, which is bullshit. Or you’re just totally make shit up, not sure.
“I only wish I knew what they wanted to hear from me.”
It’s not about hearing anything, there’s no magical thing you can say to make up for what you’ve done in the past, simply nothing. That’s why you’re so bent out of shape, you seem to think that any actions, no matter how repugnant, should be resolved when you say that you’re sorry. It’s not about saying things, it’s about doing them. Have some fucking self restraint, stop pretending every action that you’ve taken that others haven’t liked is someone else’s fault, or no one’s fault. If you really aren’t a horrible racist anymore, explain how that is critically. Be honest and upfront about what you really did say and put out there on the internet, and explain how it was wrong, how you, Jackie, were wrong. And take a step back from social justice, especially if you can’t stop complaining about the “oppression olympics” and how all these social justice people discriminate against you, as a racist or ex-racist. Because you need to understand that the voice of a racist or ex-racist is in general going to be unwanted voice, and that you have no chance in the community as someone on the trajectory that you are on. Learn to take a criticism, don’t be instantly insulted by someone disagreeing with you, these all are actions, not easy things to say, that would make a difference for you.
I don’t know y my last reply put my name out there instead of my username. Weird!
Violetyoshi – Maybe it would be best to just kind of take a break from the Internet for a bit of time to let things cool off. There are other things you can do off the internet to help people, esp. in the FA community. Just be yourself livin’ life as a fat person! A picture, they say, is worth a thousand words! As to your past, yeah, so not cool, but who among us hasn’t made mistakes that they later regret? Just make sure you really do regret it and take steps to make it right, whether confessing and acknowledging what you did and apologizing for it sans excuse. And when she does that, Kala, you got to acknowledge it and then let it go! You may have valid points, but tearing into someone isn’t going to help things any. If you guys can’t settle it online, you need to talk to each other over email correspondence in a CIVIL way to solve this. This is a safe haven for people to come on and talk about issues that they’ve had to face, it’s not supposed to be a place for all sorts of bullying behavior – NO MATTER WHO’S DOING THE ACTUAL BULLYING!!
“Kala, you got to acknowledge it and then let it go! You may have valid points, but tearing into someone isn’t going to help things any.”
THIS.
Why leave off the beginning of the sentence?
“And when she does that, Kala, you got to acknowledge it and then let it go!”
When she does that Cara, when she takes those steps to make it right. Then I’ll acknowledge it and let it go.
What do you want from me?
Kala, let her know EXACTLY what steps she can do to rectify the situation. She’s asking, you need to let her know. Picking on grammar from somebody’s post or having the attitude that nothing she says or does will ever erase the misstep makes you sound more like a vengeful troll.
I didn’t realize mental illness was an excuse. Also, I tried apologizing, it only causes people to come after me. So I have no choice but to move on, since once you become an adult, apparently saying you’re sorry means nothing.
Atchka, if you e-mailed me I’m sorry, my e-mail provider had to maintenence the system today. I want you to look at this again.
http://fiercefatties.com/2013/09/25/weight-stigma-awareness-week-almost-goes-unnoticed-by-busy-lady-wearing-pajamas/#comment-35372
Kala has a history of trolling posters. Now it’s up to you if you want to side with a troll, or keep after me for that which were some horrible things I regret having ever said while depressed and mentally ill.
It is clear you and Kala are too busy focusing on my stating something which would be considered extremely polite in 4Chan’s /b/, to understand why I posted it. Social justice is being ruined by point keepers and grudge holders. The person who ran that site, who dug all that up about me, did so because I had a fat acceptance blog. We are everyone’s easy target, and the halting of weight stigma awareness week to appease those who think fat acceptance is meaningless in terms of other forms of oppression was just that.
Instead Atchka you decided to side with my cyberbully, who could not let go of the past and who viewed mental illness as an excuse. I think you need to work on how to accept when someone is sorry, and your ableist notion that mentally ill people like me believe rediculous stereotypical things like the world is out to get us.
I can guarantee there are far worse people in the world than someone who repeatedly tried apologizing for what they did. Now, I realize I’m better off ignoring those who can’t accept sorry, who practically want blood in return for what occurred in the past. I’m simply going to ignore those people. I’m done living my life based on trying to please everyone, there are just people out there who want someone to hurt. It’s rediculous to act like someone can hop into their DeLorean and stop themselves from having posted something. If anything, we need to stop giving in to people who wish to silence us. That is what digging up year old internet accounts is, a silencing and intimidation tactic.
You can choose to take the side of those who wish to abuse us into silence, or keep after me for statements I made when I felt so low I thought only racists would accept me. Clearly someone who talks about having joined a group out of self loathing, is not the same as someone shouting the groups praises and antagonizing others. I feel sorry people cannot see this, they’re too busy firing on auto to consider they’re engaging in friendly fire. It’s up to you.
I just can’t imagine having absolutely no compassion for someone who essentially was manipulated by a cult. Someone who has a mental disorder that makes social situations hard to understand. Someone who has been rejected again and again, who has only tried desperately to apologize and beg others for forgiveness. I was rejected from Aspie support groups, I just wanted someone to tell me I’m not insane. People can be victims of their mental illness, and it’s ableist to act as if who they are as a person is the same as when they are posessed by depression. I can’t erase the pain I caused, I can only move forward in trying to help others. Hopefully you’ll see that benefits more people than a notebook of names of people that wronged you.
That moment where you find out that a diet website is using some of the imagery you uploaded for others to enjoy and pass around. Ah, Creative Commons, what hath thou wrought?
[sigh] DX
I’m wondering – I received a post from “Fat Heffalump”, chronicling the abuse she has suffered at the hands of trolls, so much so she was ready to throw in the towel so to speak. I remember seeing on the Disney Channel about kids at this one school who – in response to bullying – started leaving sticky notes around with positive anti-bullying messages and encouraging remarks to counteract the negativity. In her post, Kath (Fat Heffalump) talked about how one person encouraged her as they ran across each other on the street. She said it was some post board on Reddit that was the home base for all these haters. I got to thinking last night and it came to me that it would be good if we could do the same thing like those students and start posting anti-bullying messages on these social media sites. We could post things like “Stop Bullying” or “Discrimination against any group is wrong” or “Stigmatization against Fat People is NOT about Health!” It may be naive, but why couldn’t we start bombarding the haters with anti-hate messages the way they bombard FA sites with hateful spewings? We can let friends and family on other social media sites know and they can keep an eye out for haters. I mean, it’s time for us to go on the offensive. Lord knows we have spent too long defending ourselves, only to have far too many of our ranks fall victim to the pressure to conform at any cost! So what say you? I plan on sharing something like this on Kath’s site, too. I even want to share ideas with NAAFA to have some new PR out there to spread their message of fat acceptance, because we can’t keep letting the haters silence our voices through their cruel tactics. Too many people need to hear this message!
One of the worst examples I’ve seen lately of vicious bigotry being passed off as a JOKE! and my best frienemy got all indignant because I labeled it as such when she “shared” it with me on FB!
I’ve had issues with self-loathing due to weight. Crying, telling myself I need to die/starve/run until I puked. Finally got help (my counselor rocks). I’m eating better, exercising and (more importantly) not hating myself. Then I went for my physical. I expected my doctor to be supportive, helpful, and maybe even be pleased. In short she was not any of these things, I left in tears. Bp was normal, the blood test she ordered showed my cholesterol was excellent, glucose normal and thyroid working fine. Instead of taking my concerns about shin splints seriously (pt next door diagnosed it), she dismissed it with “everyone gets pain when they run”. Boyfriend was shocked, urged me to find a better doctor. Good news- I have an appointment with a new doctor that sounds promising. Bad news:appointment is next year, and in the meantime I have a medication that requires a monthly rx to be written. There is a doctor who can handle this in the meantime but I’m having a hell of a time trying to get an appointment. I don’t want to see this doctor again. Even though my BP was normal, I’m supposed to go back in 6 months for a follow up and if I don’t lose weight as ordered…well, I don’t want to think about how that will end up. I’m thinking about asking my insurer what to do and making a complaint to the office manager. My dad gets mad, saying that I’m getting way too upset over this and that if I don’t want to go back, don’t go back….he thinks she just had an off day. I feel trapped and frustrated. I’m not going off my ADHD medication during the semester to prove a point. UGH.
Bless my counselor, my mother and my boyfriend who have been so good at listening and understanding.
yes, you are right of course. The fact that I can’t walk away from her pseudo-neediness is a reflection of what a truly sick pup I am. But eventually there will come a day that I will just say I CAN’T TAKE IT ANY MORE like all her other ex-friends have done… in the meantime if I try to point out to her that she is being totally disrespectful to me with her constant narcissistic droning about stuff I have told her repeatedly I don’t want to talk about, out will come the guilt trips…”Am I such a terrible person? Why doesn’t anybody care about me?” and she will quit her trainer and go off her diabetes meds and blame all that on me… She has no concept whatsoever of empathy for other people and I, it seems, have way too much!
I know what I REALLY need to do is get out and seek some better friends, but I’ve been burned so bad by frienemies the last few years that I spend most of my time with no one but my cats, by my own choice! I am trying to learn to overcome loneliness and get to the point that I just don’t give a crap about human companionship anymore because I am sick to death of being hurt.
Maybe a large portion of your “friend fatigue” has to do with how draining and demanding this person is. If you drop her, maybe after a time you’ll feel the urge to start looking around for human friendship again. Or maybe not. In either case, I feel safe saying that you’ll be better off with her out of the picture. Whether she’s better off should not be your concern. Your own needs ought to come first.
P.S.- I’m also a big cat person. My cat is destructive, obnoxious, and whips out his claws at the drop of a hat. On the other hand, he’s at least open about his agenda: “Just put down the food and go away. Don’t ruin the moment by trying to be affectionate.” Which puts him ahead of a great many people I know. 😉
Hi all! I was hoping to see if someone could direct me to some much needed resources.
I spent twenty years with disordered eating (not anorexia, but on the path to it, not purging bulimic but definitely exercise bulimic, and so on). A little over a year ago, I discovered HAES, intuitive eating and fat acceptance. I put on fifty pounds as I’ve struggled to relearn how to eat like a normal, healthy, non-obsessed person.
I just found out my fasting blood glucose is 99 (I have a very strong family history of diabetes, too) and of course, carb controlled dieting and weight loss was prescribed. I want to take care of myself. I don’t want to get diabetes-I’ve seen some of the worst it can do firsthand. I just don’t know how to do this-I don’t want to count calories or carbs or anything, I don’t want to eat snacks when I’m not hungry, I don’t want to eat food that I don’t like very much in the name of health (nuts and yogurt at the top of my list). I don’t want to go back to my old lifestyle in any way, shape or form. That’s what the doctor tells me my situation calls for, though. Maybe it does-but that’s setting off my obsessions again.
I’ve tried researching intuitive eating/HAES with diabetes but haven’t found a lot of information. Anyone have any advice or resources they can guide me to? Thanks in advance for any help!
I’d check out the fatnutritionist (fatnutritionist.com). She doesn’t deal specifically with diabetes, but she does have some good posts about dealing with eating restrictions in a healthy manner. She also takes patients via Skype if that would help.
I am a big fan of Trey Parker and Matt Stone and their work. Their take on the recent economic meltdown is one of the most intelligent and biting pieces of satire I’ve ever seen (the episode is called “Margaritaville”). Tonight,in the latest episode of “South Park”, they made me cry.
In a scathing indictment of Photoshopped images, they forced their, to date, most powerful female character, Wendy, to cave to the “norm”.
All I can say is that I am glad that I am not a parent of an adolescent girl. If I were, I would have no idea how to help her, counteract the negative messages she receives every day from the media, her peers, and yes, her teachers.
The truth of their portrayal of Wendy’s situation is what made me cry. I don’t think that it can be denied that the creators of South Park – love it or hate it – have a keen eye on the reality of life in North America today. This last episode especially highlights the plight of girls and women, in a very poignant way.
I have read a lot of the recent posts about selfies around the web, and honestly couldn’t relate. I have, for the last 20 years, avoided having my picture taken. I have so many ‘dislikes’ of myself in pictures. However, after watching this episode of “South Park”, I think that perhaps, for me, the most radical piece of body acceptance advocacy would be taking – and making public – photos of myself. I don’t know if I’m at that point yet, but I am seriously considering it.
This might be a rant more than anything else. But, I just need to get this out.
Today, I was told that I was morbidly obese and killing myself. This happened when I went to a local Planned Parenthood clinic. I just wanted to get my birth control–which I have been on for the past 3 years–refilled. I used to go to a different location which was awesome, but I moved recently, so I decided to go to the one across the river.
My normally low blood pressure was slightly higher than usual, on top of the fact that I gained 10lbs according to their scale. I find this hard to believe as, if I had gained 10lbs, why do my clothes fit more loosely than they did 6 months ago? But I digress. My blood pressure is increased because I have been having an issue with admittance to Graduate school, and I have spent the past two weeks yelling at my undergraduate school because they screwed me over big time. Even while I was at this appointment, I was receiving calls due to this issue, so it hasn’t been leaving me since it started.
They asked me standard questions. Do your parents have a history of high blood pressure? Yes. Both of them have high blood pressure. However, my mother is a drug addict who is also an alcoholic (yay Southern California lifestyle!) and my father is well into his 70s and has to live with her. It’s not weird that this is occurring. They also asked if I had a family history of strokes. My grandfather had a stroke at 68 in 1965.
Apparently, this information was enough for them to tell me I can’t have my pills. However, do the math. My grandfather was born IN THE 1800s. I am being punished because of this.
10 pounds is negligible no matter how you slice it. A couple weeks after Thanksgiving? An afternoon appointment instead of my normal morning appointment? Maybe just wearing heavier winter clothes instead of the tank tops and flip flops of summer? It is all so ridiculous. The previous doctor had no problem refilling my prescription. And now, this woman came into the room telling me that I was morbidly obese and was killing myself. She didn’t care about the external conditions, and was uninterested when I began to explain to her. All she saw was a fat girl who probably shouldn’t be sexually active in her mind. Why was I okay when the magical scale said a number 10 digits lower, but not now? (And, for the record, I am a plus sized lady. Always have been.)
It’s yet another thing to add to my list of things to fight in this world. It was suggested to me to go to the other clinic, which I just might do. I am just so taken aback. I wonder if anybody has any advice for me to take?
So… As a fat person with Polycystic Kidney disease, I’ve been spending a few free minutes today looking for pages that might have some insight into weight issues for other people with the same illness.
As you might guess, it’s not going all that great. There are a lot of pages grinding a particular diet-related axe (“Veganism will fix your kidneys and slim you down!” Or “Paleo will fix your kidneys and slim you down!” And so on…) There are also a lot of journal-type pages where somebody is berating herself for being too weak and sick to work out, or somebody is righteously indignant that he got the disease after “doing everything right.” (IOW– not being a gross ugly food-snarfing fat fool. Wonderful.) Anyway, if anyone has some promising leads in this regard, please share them. I have very limited time to play on the internet reading things that make me roll my eyes for the rest of the week. Thanks in advance, and Happy Holidays.
I tried to post in the Fat Liberation 2012 post’s comments.
I love the term fat liberation, but this misses so much. Liberalism makes it about the individual’s empowerment, when activism means it’s necessary to collectivize, to work together with the understanding that it is about the material conditions of our lives — not individual feel goods! I am a longtime fat activist (43 years and counting) and a radical feminist. I owe a huge debt of gratitude to Aldebaran and the Fat Underground. But since liberalism co-opted radical feminism in the late 80’s/90’s, there hasn’t been much of a fat liberation movement. It has been fat acceptance, ensuring fat women’s place as Objects, too. That is NOT liberation. I want liberation.
yes, I believe it was Ernest Hemingway who said he admired cats because of their “complete emotional honesty”. Amen to that! My loving PurrSons are better friends than any humans I’ve known!
oops, sorry folks, my reply didn’t show up in the right place so it’s apropos of nothing to above discussion. hope I didn’t get on your nerves!
Link to obligatory funny cat moment. (Yes, it’s one of mine… fuzzy iPod™ quality and all.) Cheers.
Ms. Xeno – yeah that was funny! Thanks for the laugh.
Two weeks ago I managed to qualify for New Jersey FamilyCare health coverage. (This, in actuality, is the extended state Medicaid coverage, for low income people who can’t afford regular health insurance from big companies; the cost is paid for by the Fed. Gov.).
First time I have health insurance of any kind – EVER! – even though I’ve worked nearly my whole adult life…
THANK YOU, PRES. OBAMA – and the ACA!!
Single Payer/National health care program would have been much better… but baby steps, right? I think we’ll get that single payer program in the next 10 years.
Ok, now the downside:
Just went to my regular doctor yesterday for my blood work and thyroid review. I mentioned to the nurse behind the desk that I would soon be covered by NJ FamilyCare, and she looked at me and said “We don’t accept that coverage…. Sorry.”
Oh so that’s how it is, eh? Sure, we’ve got coverage, but now it’s up to the doctors if they want to “accept it” or not. Great.
I guess now I’m just another ‘low life loser’ on “medicaid” who will be shunned for healthcare by profit worshiping doctors…
I’ve had TriCare for the last 7 years, and Medicare for the last 5 years. When my doctor referred me to a physiotherapist for my back pain, I was told that they “used to” take both of those health care insurances, but no longer do. It was going to cost me $1,000 for the initial consult and 6 visits. I told them sorry, can’t afford that. Things like that make me afraid to fire a bad doctor and look for a new one – makes me wonder if the new one will take my insurances (seems like more and more of them are not because both of them only reimburse about 15% of what is charged and doctors/hospitals/labs can’t charge me more than a very small percentage of the remaining balance).
Hi everybody, long time no see! Between the HoliDaze, scary politics going on at my job, and efforts (so far fruitless) to turn a hobby into a business, I just haven’t been able to get here that much the last couple of months.
But here I am again and actually wanting to vent about some of the same old crap I’ve vented about before, but I think with a new twist. I just want input from you folks to help me sort out exactly what it is I’m feeling and therefore why this situation urinates me off so much.
It’s about my best frienemy, the one who refuses to give any credence to anything like fat acceptance, HAES, or anything other than it’s horrible that she’s so fat now and she just HAS to get back down to 120 lbs like she was back in college. She has literally lost and regained what would add up to an entire family–Weight Watchers, hospital programs, Atkins, a regime from her doctor where she was not “allowed” to have anything but salad with vinaigrette dressing for an entire 30 days to “save her life” from her high blood sugar and cholesterol, etc. ad nauseam. She goes to all these extremes till she can’t take it any more, then she always “falls off the wagon” in a BIG way… like on one of her recent visits to me, she insisted we go thru the drivethru at Burger King so she could get a large chocolate shake…by the time I had pulled around from the drivethru and about to turn back onto the street that was gone and she made me go back thru so she could get another, and before we got home I had to turn around and go back for a 3rd! I asked her if she “really” wanted to do that, and of course she said “I HAVE to have it because I have PMS!” And the time we had a “girls night out” with a movie followed by Friendly’s, and she had a large popcorn with extra butter (I had none except a handful she grudgingly let me scarf out of hers), and then at Friendly’s, the whole time she rhapsodized about some girl in the restaurant with skinnier legs than the chairs and how wonderful it would be to look that way again and how it was just awful how she let herself go, and she was “gonna get this OFF ME!” Meanwhile she ordered the large sundae (5 scoops) and had to have a milkshake “to wash it down”. While I tried to counter all her verbal diarrhea with HAES talk as i enjoyed the “regular” (3 scoop) sundae with, guess what, WATER to “wash it down”…
So now her latest installment in the neverending weight soap opera is, she’s got a personal trainer. The first few weeks she was working with him, she would call me all whiny saying “this is such a drag. Mike is so strict, he won’t let me have this and he won’t let me have that, and he’s working me soooooo hard…” I said what do you mean, “won’t let you?” Have you forgotten, HE is working for YOU?!! “oh, but i signed a contract with him…whine…snivel…”
Well, now she is on absolute cloud 9 because she has lost 25 lbs. and is down a pants size and thinking maybe she can go down another size because the smaller ones are “so baggy” now… And of course, acting totally smug and superior about the whole thing. Dropping me a few hints about, gee, maybe *I* could do a little working out, bet it would make such a difference! I told her i HATE exercise (unfortunately i really, really do!!!) and she asked WHY?? in a very confrontational, accusational tone. Like i owe her an explanation.
She goes on and on and on about how wonderful everything is now that she’s finally getting all that weight off her, and she’s getting so much healthier, and she’s feeling SEXY again! (incidentally enough to think that at age 52, she’s got a shot at snagging said 29-year old personal trainer, puleeez!!)
I hold the phone out from my ear, stifle my sighs as best i can, and just mutter “mmm-hmmm” when she gushes about all this stuff. and she’s like “Why can’t you be happier for me?”
Well, the biggest reason is I’ve seen this all 1,000 times before, i know how she is and although i hope she won’t crash and burn AGAIN, i don’t have much faith in her.
BUT… her confrontational crap has me questioning, is that my real reason? Or deep down am i jealous of her because she’s “living the dream” and I’m not?? i sooooooo don’t want to go back there, and it just seems like she’s doing her damnedest to drag me back there!!!
I’d like to hear what you guys think.
I don’t get it. Why should it matter if you’re jealous or not? Her behavior is bad, regardless. She’s attempting to undermine you, consciously or not. (The shake incident in particular really stands out in that regard– I thought so the first time I read it, because of my own issues with food and other people’s manipulative behavior regarding same. Forgive me for stating what’s probably obvious to you.)
it’s just that ALL the rest of society would see it that way, that I’m not cheering her on because I’m “jealous” of her for her “success”… EVERYONE else would say she good, me bad! So I guess I’m looking for some kind of reassurance that I’m not what the rest of society says I am 😦
No, you’re not. If anything, you’re probably fed up with the one-upmanship this ‘friend’ displays. And, as far as I can see, who can blame you?
First off, I just want to be clear that I’m not trying to pick a fight with you or Denise, who wrote some really good stuff here. I guess I’d paraphrase an old discussion I read about Freud back in the day: Perhaps you are jealous, but not in the way she or most of society would think. In that sense so am I and so are a lot of other people. We live in a society that prizes thin/beautiful above all else. If we are jealous, it’s of the automatic perks that come with being thin– not to mention being thin would free us from constant pressure to jump back on the diet merry-go-round; it would free us from much of the crummy behavior like that your friend is exhibiting towards you.
Our bodies aren’t the problem here, but the unwanted and uncalled-for baggage heaped on them by others who constantly confuse physical appearance with moral character.
If I had a “friend” who pulled that shit with me time after time after time, I’d cut her out of my life, I don’t care how long we’d been friends. I don’t need someone in my life that’s constantly undermining me and making me feel like a failure just because I’m not willing to go through her dieting extremes with her. I’m also not going to be someone’s cheerleader on their weight loss journey, especially if it’s a journey they’ve been on countless times before and it hasn’t worked for them. As for the BS with going through the drive-thru 3 times for a milkshake, not happening. She wants a second or third milkshake, she can drive her own ass there and go through as many times as she wants.
She’s miserable in her own skin and she doesn’t want to be alone in her misery, so she’s trying to convince you that you should be miserable too. Doesn’t sound like much of a friend to me, and certainly not someone I’d want in my life.
*Likes*
I say dump her. This girl is seriously cray-cray. I also think she’s an emotional vampire. It’s all about her. ‘WHY aren’t you happy for MEEE?’ She doesn’t want to hear anything you have to say – it’s all about her – but boy, does she know how to stick that knife in and give it a twist with the not-so-subtle hints. ‘I lost weight, ain’t I special! You could stand to lose a few, fatty. But first, admire my greatness’. She may be a ‘good friend’, but you know the old saying, ‘With friends like that…’ She doesn’t really care about you, she just wants someone to stroke her ego. Otherwise she would actually listen to you, not try to push your buttons and drag you back down to where you were before. Seriously, that lady’s all sorts of crazy! And you don’t need that. You’re taking care of your physical health, time to take care of your mental.
Hey y’all, sorry to bother you with this AGAIN… but I just saw this post from you know who on FB: “Well I’ve lost 61lbs and doing great . More to come off and I love working out again. Looking trimmer and feeling happier.” And I have no Pepto Biz in the house to wash it down!
And yet even with all this rhapsodizing about how wonderful life is now that she’s lost some weight, she still calls me some days and says she is soooooo depressed, on her way to work she stopped off and got a bagel with cream cheese, and then 2 chocolate eclairs, and then a muffin when she got to work! Yeah, like she has really learned soooooo much from this personal trainer! And to top it all off, she admitted to me the other night that she’s paying this personal trainer like $350 a month for the privilege of him telling her what to eat, etc. ad nauseam.
I could just PUKE!!! I know y’all have told me to just chop her loose, but I have just not been able to do so, so I keep hearing about it… And her next thing will be to get pissed at me because I didn’t chime in with everyone else on FB congratulating her on how wonderful she’s doing! Well, I WON’T do it because I am just so sick of the whole thing!
Hope you guys aren’t getting totally annoyed with me, but I just had to vent!!!
I’m totally with vesta and Denise. Do you need this person in your life? Do you feel good after spending time with her?
In reply to Ms. Xeno (in case this post winds up way down the list on here), what you said to BBDee sums it up nicely. We don’t want to fight everybody – that’s the point – it’s the fact that our society keeps drawing us into this fight, whether we want it or not.
So i just left a comment that i kinda regret. This is your space. But i wanted to share an experience. I was walking down the streer when a group of people was behind me. They were very loud. I covered my ears. One of the girls grabbed me from behind, trying to hug me i guess and i got angry. I told them i was angry. They sniped that i was so fat that id die from a heart attack and were very mad. I yelled at them. I called them fascists and nazies. I was very hurt. They yelled at me more and a guy yelled at me telling me he was jewish. I didnt say nazi after that but said that he treated me as a lesser. I did not make any other slurs. I was so upset that i cried in the farmacy. The guy came in and accused me of lying but he apologized, but was angry that i called him a nazi and the people there seemed to think 7that that was worse and laughed awhen i described the fat shamin comment. But they were still pretty nice. Was i out of line? This i a real question? I think i was wrong to yell nazi, but does this make me a bigot? I am not sure. I feel that maybe i shouldnt have yelled at them. I have add, ocd, depression so i am sensitive to sound and touch. Autism has been brought up as well, but i wont call myself autistic, because i feel like that is denying my priveledge.
Below is a comment left on Facebook by a man named, Jeremy Johnson. I was so outraged, I could not sleep until I exposed this guy. His Facebook profile says that he is a manager of a Petsmart, I believe near Louisville, KY. Please read his “lesson” e is teaching his young daughter. Below is the entire post, copied and pasted just as it appeared:
Today at meijer I saw an obese black lady driving the obese electric wheel chair (because she’s so fucking obese she don’t wanna walk it exercise) and she got stuck in the. automatic door because her legs had fat rolls spilling out of their sides, so far that she couldn’t fit her fat ass through the 4′ door. And she was stuck. I thought this would be a good lesson to teach my daughter as we walked out, so instead of attempting to push her 450lb lard ass, I walked by and said “look Haili, someone had too much mc Donald’s” and just walked on. I’m sure she will blame someone else because it clearly isn’t her fault.
The message below was posted on Facebook by a man named, Jeremy Johnson, his profile says he is a manager of a Petsmart (possibly near Louisville, KY) I hope he understands that people can actually see what he wrote, including his employer. Below is the entire “lesson” to his young daughter. I hope you all are as outraged as I am.
Today at meijer I saw an obese black lady driving the obese electric wheel chair (because she’s so fucking obese she don’t wanna walk it exercise) and she got stuck in the. automatic door because her legs had fat rolls spilling out of their sides, so far that she couldn’t fit her fat ass through the 4′ door. And she was stuck. I thought this would be a good lesson to teach my daughter as we walked out, so instead of attempting to push her 450lb lard ass, I walked by and said “look Haili, someone had too much mc Donald’s” and just walked on. I’m sure she will blame someone else because it clearly isn’t her fault.
Yeah, I shudder to think the lesson he’s teaching his young daughter: “Look, Haili, Daddy’s an asshole! You should go around making fun of people different from you and walk around with your head up your ass too! It’s fun!” Let’s hope this is one time she DOESN’T look up to Daddy! (I also feel sorry for his employees or any customers of his store who don’t meet his oh-so-persnickety approval. He probably treats them like shit. I hope people see this and demand he be fired.
There is this troll on Twitter (@NaomiJChambers) and she also has a blog that is just repulsive. After a few remarks from me on Twitter, she decided to feature me in her blog. Check it out: http://venturephilosophy.blogspot.com/2014/06/say-it-right-overcome-word-obese.html
I am a big girl. I hate to say fat but I guess I am. I wish I could love myself and see the beauty everyone else sees, but instead I just see what I hate. My fat. All the women in my family are fat – my mom, my grandmother, my cousins, my aunts and I think it’s genetic or runs in the family.
But then there’s my brother’s wife. She’s been around since high school and she’s always been the stereotypical skinny, blonde hair, blue eyes, big boobs Barbie doll type. On the other hand, I have brown hair, brown eyes, darker skin and I’m fat. I never really liked her to begin with but now she’s here to stay.
When she got pregnant she went months before gaining a single pound. I’m pretty sure she starved herself and made herself throw up (she threw up 24-7 constantly while pregnant) to the point where she almost miscarried. In the last trimester she suddenly gained a TON of weight. I was secretly happy because now she would know what it’s like to be fat.
Instead, she went on some crazy crash diet and worked out six days a week and lost a TON of weight, to the point where she was skinnier than before she was pregnant. They live across the country (my brother is in the Army) but she only bothers to come visit maybe twice a year. Well she came for 3 weeks with my nephew (who is also stick thin and way underweight for his age) and all anyone could talk about it how amazing she looks and how beautiful she is. As if being skinny somehow makes her pretty. Meanwhile I also had a baby and lost some weight but because I’m not a size 2, no one gives a shit. No one even notices. It’s all her her her and everyone wants to know how she did it (of course she just says she went to the gym a few times, she won’t reveal how she actually did it) and my aunt even suggested I should ask her for help losing weight!! Then she had the balls to buy the same exact shirt and wear it the same day I wore it like she had to prove to everyone she looked so much better in it.
I try to diet but I always end up gaining weight every single time. To the point where I am seriously considering surgery just to be thin. I don’t want to hate my body but my own family is choosing her over me and constantly rubbing in my face how amazing she looks. Honestly I’m sick of hearing about it. Thank god she loves so far away because I only have to deal with her twice a year!
I don’t know what to do. I want to accept myself for who I am, but it’s impossible when women like her are always flaunting their bodies in my face. I really wish she could be fat even for one day just to see how it feels.
Hi Julie,
I’m so sorry that you’re going through this ordeal. It’s incredibly difficult to see the beauty standards and ideals in action, especially when we’re on the outside looking in. There is an intense incentive for all women (and yes, it’s almost entirely women, although very large men can face stigma as well) to be as thin as possible, to the point of endangering their health in the pursuit of that ideal. There are people who seem to have a genetic advantage in how their bodies respond to diet and exercise, while others can push themselves to the limit and barely budge the scale. This does not mean you are a failure or a less deserving of the love and support of family and friends. Unfortunately, we live in a culture that emphasizes the opposite, and to reject those standards and find the confidence to love yourself despite social pressure that tells you to do the opposite.
I think of the self-acceptance, Body Acceptance, as a journey. There’s no on or off switch. It’s more like an education. You must learn how to value yourself and love yourself regardless of the body you were born into. To do so, the best thing to do is to read about the experiences of others who have been exactly where you are today. There are tons of blogs and Tumblrs and Tweeters who are at various stages of their self-acceptance journey. Hearing about their experiences, their suggestions on bolstering your self-esteem, and, yes, their ongoing struggles, you may recognize some wisdom that you can use in your own life. Another valuable exercise for some people is journaling. Start a blog and share your thoughts with others, and build a support network that can reassure you when the outside world gets too hard to handle. When you realize you’re not alone (not in the least), you will begin to find the strength to think of yourself on your own terms, not the arbitrary standards of others.
If you have any questions or need anything at all, feel free to let us know. We’re a welcoming community who know what you’re going through. And take our word for it: you will be fine in time.
Peace,
Shannon
I really like the idea of body acceptance and I’m so glad I found this website. But I don’t really know where to start. Is there a forum or something? I’m at a loss. My SIL finally went back home so at least that’s not an issue right now (until thanksgiving at least) but it’s still hard seeing her photos all over Facebook and stuff. I wish I could stop comparing myself to her but it’s impossible when it’s still all everyone ever talks about.
Julie, I’d stay the heck away from your family, even during the holidays. It sounds like all they want to do is drag you down and you don’t need that. Find some good friends who accept you for who you are and where you’re at RIGHT NOW and make a new holiday tradition – being with the people who love you as you are and don’t hold you up as the picture of failure while they worship (yes, worship) this icon of so-called “perfection” that is your sister-in-law. (BTW, she doesn’t sound like a very likable person to begin with from what you described. She sounds like one of those catty, competitive women who only are happy when they are making everyone else around them feel miserable about themselves). I know that it’s hard to forego family “obligations”, but I’ve heard it said that family is not just blood-relations, it’s also people who love you for being you, and if they can’t accept you, why the heck would you want to damage your mental and emotional health even “only” 2 times a year? And stay off of Facebook for a while – instead, go to fat positive sites like this one to see that others are just like you and are able to live fulfilling lives.
Any ideas on where to find or what to look for in flexible-sized slacks? It seems like my weight is still fluctuating a bit, and I don’t think I can afford to buy everything in 3 sizes! Need something that has some stretch, but is nice enough to wear in professional settings (coverage is also a factor….working with kids in school!)
Bonus points for age appropriate (early 20’s).
So, my co-worker has decided to have sleeve gastrectomy. Her surgery is in 6 weeks. Her fiance isn’t happy about it. Her mother and her aunt (her mother’s sister) have both had weight loss surgery in the past and are still fat. However, she thinks that her life will be miraculously better next summer after the surgery.
My company threw an end-of-summer, goodbye/welcome party tonight, and whenever food or drink came around, all she could say was “this is the last time I’ll have [enter food/drink name here]. I am more than a little upset after this. She is the only person who has any right to make decisions about her herself, so I couldn’t say anything.
We’re in Canada, and she’s in a program that her doctor nominated her for without telling her. [Note:if my doctor had done that ‘for’ me, I’d have fired her as soon as I knew what she’d done.] The surgery is free, and I’m told she’ll have lifetime support afterwards. And she’s being fast-tracked because she’s “more emotionally stable than she thought she was” (I’m quoting her).
She is younger than 30, and thinks she understands that she won’t be able to eat anything much at her own wedding (from what she was saying tonight) or ever after, other than a bite or two, because she won’t be able to eat much after the surgery.
I like her but I can’t talk to her about anything but work any more. And there’s no one at work who understands my position. I just have to keep quiet. So, here I am, letting it out. Thanks for the place to let me do so. So, here’s my rant:
WHY WOULD YOU VOLUNTARILY AMPUTATE A WORKING ORGAN (JUST TO TRY AND FIT INTO A NORM THAT IS, FOR THE MOST PART, ARBITRARY AND UN-ACHIEVEABLE)????!!!??? AAAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!!
I have a fantasy of going into one of those meetings that Kaiser (my health insurance through my hubby’s work) sponsors to give information and answer questions about weight-loss surgery and basically saying the exact same thing as your rant. I wonder what they’d say…
Update: today, I was informed that the craft service treats that are available to employees are now going to be ‘hidden’ in an unused room, as my co-worker will now be on her pre-surgery diet and she doesn’t want to see chocolate around in the kitchen.
I think I’m the only person in the office who hasn’t said a word about her surgery. Everyone else seems to think she’s a hero.
It is very depressing.
I also had a friend go through the same procedure. The surgery was scheduled in order to prolong his life. Unfortunately, 28 months after the surgery he is now back to his original weight. (408lbs)
Unless this surgery is needed to save or prolong someone’s life, I do feel as it is unnecessary. If a patient needs this procedure, then it should come with “basic training” on how to shop, cook and eat healthy foods.
In my opinion, this procedure is not like a form of plastic surgery (just to try and fit into the norm that is unachievable), but a last resort to saving someone’s life threatened by obesity.
Our hearts and our brains are the most important organs we have. Lets fill our minds with the knowledge that breaks us free from obesity (healthy lifestyle, not a DIET) and save our hearts from the cholesterol plaque that prevents them from working.
New here.. Wanted to vent about something. I tend to sweat a lot and some of my illness/
Disease make me sweat more it seems. My face turns red a lot and what I cannot stand is being out somewhere and people stare. Have they not seen someone sweat before? It makes me want to not go anywhere outside. So, anyhoo that’s my vent
I am trying to help a good friend who is so large that she is now disabled and has trouble getting around. She wants a pair of clog-like slippers, but I can’t find anything that will fit over her round feet without the shoes then being so large that there is an extra 1″-3″ behind her heel (or in front of her toes).
Her feet look like softballs with tiny toes sticking out. I say that *NOT* to be disparaging, but to give you an idea of the shape of her feet – and therefore the problem of finding shoes that will fit.
The most recent pair of shoes I ordered for her were the ones that fasten three ways (a flap comes up over the toes, then flaps fasten from either side of the foot), but it hurt her too much to bend over to put the shoes on. (The shoes weren’t clogs, so she couldn’t just slide into them).
Does anyone have any ideas on where I can go to find shoes that would fit a foot that used to be a Women’s 8W, but now is maybe an 8.5WWWWW? (As in, her foot hasn’t gotten any longer, it’s just a whole lot puffier / taller / rounder. . . not just wider in a horizontal manner.)
Thank you in advance for any help and suggestions.
Here, maybe? http://www.bignwideshoes.com/viewshoes.php?style=408
Thank you, DK!!
What a truly shitty way to parent.
Hm. Doesn’t seem to have posted as a reply to the post I got an email notification about.
I’ve been fat ever since I was a child. I was made fun of until I became bulimic. Then the jokes stopped. I was 12. When I stopped purging I gained 80 pounds. Clearly I am fat again. But I’m trying to be ok with that. I have taken the “I don’t give a shit” approach. Which is usually fine. But I recently met someone. He is sweet and lovely. And im finding it very hard to care about what he thinks without feeling like a 12 year old again. I love myself, and I think I’m beautiful. I didn’t think I would find it hard to believe someone else thought so too.
I have recently started to do something that some may find distasteful. I have started a cam broadcasting myself and my body. To viewers who usually have only nice things to say. It has helped actually. These are strangers who have annonyminity of the internet to hide behind. Why would they lie? I do have a filter set on the feed to block hateful comments. But knowing that there are people out there who genuinely think I am beautiful and it’s not just me has helped me overcome my shyness wih my friend a bit.
I still blush and sometimes brush my friend off. But I hope that one day I will be able to accept that he and other men find me attractive. No blushing. Just a “thank you” and a smile. Maybe even take off the filter.
Surprise surprise! My doctor has found a new way to royally piss me off! Now that she knows better than to even bring up weight loss surgery with me because I have expressed in no uncertain terms how thoroughly I am against, as I always refer to it in response to her, DIGESTIVE MUTILATION. She is now trying Plan B, DRUG ADDICTION! Now she’s trying to talk me into going on PHENTERMINE! I told her I was not interested because I’ve heard many reports that this drug is NOT SAFE… to which she replied “Come on, do you really think we’d prescribe something to you that wasn’t safe?” So, just for sh*ts and giggles, I googled Phentermine, and a lot of people said it made them feel great at first but then they felt like crap and it was very addictive. But my biggest objection to taking this or ANY so-called weight loss drug is that it would be inviting them to intrude into an area of my life that I’ve worked very hard to keep them out of. I have been a patient of this dr. for about 5 years now, and right from the get-go I said I would NOT get on a scale and I was NOT open to discussing weight loss, that she would have to “doctor around” my weight because the issue was off the table! Now even if I had no doubts about the drug’s safety or efficacy, I still would be unwilling to do it, because as soon as they prescribe a weight loss drug, they expect to monitor my weight to see how well it’s working, and if it doesn’t work, they can hold NON-COMPLIANCE over my head as an excuse to refuse treatment, or for my insurer to refuse to pay for any treatment I might need in the future. And for WHAT? I am otherwise in pretty good health. My sugar and cholesterol levels are good, and my blood pressure is a little high and I’m on a pill for it, but I don’t see why that should justify risking my homeostasis, equilibrium and privacy to go on this weight loss drug. I AIN’T “BROKE” SO DON’T FIX ME!!!
Anyone else around here have knowledge or experience with Phentermine?
Yes, back in 1996 or 1997, I was on Phen-Fen for about 6 months (until they took it off the market because it caused pulmonary hypertension and women were ending up needing heart/lung transplants). I lost about 30 lbs in that 6 months, and as soon as I stopped taking it, I gained all the weight back. It’s NOT a drug that you can take for the rest of your life – it’s meant to be a short-term aid, and it doesn’t guarantee permanent weight loss.
If you regain any lost weight after stopping the drug, you’ll be blamed – told you must be lying about what you’re eating or how much you’re eating or how often you’re eating, because if you were just following the way you ate when you were taking the drug, you wouldn’t be gaining weight back (yeah, where have we heard that one before?). So you’re right to refuse it, at least in my opinion (it’s not a drug I would ever want to take again).
I just feel so BETRAYED that she would keep pushing crap like this. I thought we had come to some kind of agreement.
Phentermine – isn’t that one of the drugs that was part of the infamous drug duo “Fen-Phen”? Obviously, this doctor doesn’t care enough to listen to you and your concerns. And in response to her question: “YES!”
Have you seen the latest news about Jared Fogle? Turns out to be a sleazy pervert who goes after underage girls. So now Subway has dumped him. I say GOOD RIDDANCE! His last commercial before all the scandal broke really, really disgusted me. He was on there bragging about how he has kept his weight off for 15 years and how this (strongly implying ONLY this) made it possible for him to have a wife and children. Yet another of so many examples of how fat people are supposed to respond to rejection, shaming, etc. by “showing them all” of course by losing weight. Like if you don’t do this, no one will have you and none of the good things in life are possible. }-0[======
Besides, all it did was show what a conformist he was. That’s not exactly something to brag about, in my opinion.
HAHA!!! I’m so glad that smug bastard was called out for being the jerk he is! I couldn’t stand looking at his smirking face all the time. It made me want to stay as far away from Subway as possible. Now I can go back and enjoy their sandwiches if I want to – at least until they bring in their next performing puppet spokesperson!
The American Red Cross has earned a permanent spot on my $hit list! Here I am, perfectly healthy…blood pressure now well controlled with meds and a little extra potassium… I even brought my own blood pressure cuff because I did have this issue once before… but they still turned me away as a donor because my cuff was not on their “approved QA list” and theirs was not big enough! Obviously they have managed to do it before because until recently, I donated quite regularly and I have NOT gained weight in the last few years… I had a donor card and everything… they would even call me and email me to try to get me to commit to coming to local blood drives… and now they pull this crap! I have informed them that they will NEVER get another drop of my blood or another cent of my money, and if I ever get any calls or emails from them again, I will turn them in for HARRASSMENT!!!
Yet another example of fat hatred in practice.
Hi Everybody, haven’t been here in a while, or online in general. Miss you guys. Anyway, I’ve posted before on here about my so-called BFF and all her fat-shaming, self-centered, obnoxious ways, and plenty of you have told me to dump her. I finally did… but feeling a little guilt. So please indulge me and join in a game of “Who’s the Asshole?”
This may get a little long… Anyway, I’ve been friends with “Millie” since high school. She was very thin and athletic and I was the sort of chunky girl who never played sports cuz she couldn’t walk and chew gum at the same time. We were both sort of nerds and social outcasts.
So then we both went to the same community college, and became closer friends, always hanging out together. I was forever dieting and she was forever rubbing my nose in it. For example, once when we were waiting for a bus, she talked me into going in the ice cream shop by the bus stop because it was too cold to wait outside. She KNEW I was on one of my perpetual diets. I ordered a diet 7-up and she ordered some big rich decadent humungous sundae, and sat there making a huge spectacle of herself, moaning in ecstasy as she ate it. I lit a cigarette and blew smoke in her face, an insufferably rude act I would NEVER have done to anyone else! That was just one example of how insufferable she was when she was thin. She was forever whining to the rest of our group of friends how awful it was that she got up to 120 lbs. and how she had to go on a diet. Fishing for compliments, of course.
After college, we went our separate ways for like 10 years, but then I moved back to our hometown and we started hanging out again. She had gained a LOT of weight, she said mainly due to the meds she was taking and working in a bakery for several years. I had lost a lot of weight on my latest diet, but had recently gained it all back and then some, so we were about the same size. She was always whining about how awful it was to be so fat, and gazing longingly at very skinny girls saying “Don’t you wish you could look like that again?” to which I replied “I wouldn’t know… I never did!” About that time I also discovered BBW magazine, subscribed, and became an avid fan of Size Acceptance. I exercised and did my best to live a reasonably healthy lifestyle, never lost any weight but didn’t gain anymore either. She totally ridiculed these ideas as “silly”. She went on the Atkins diet, lost 100 lbs, and was totally insufferable about it; “Thank god i’m not disgustingly fat anymore…” I told her she was being obnoxious and she said “If you were my friend you’d be happy for me!” Guess what, she gained it all back!
Fast forward another 20 years. I maintained a stable weight for a while, but went thru several major, stressful emotional crises over a few years, which led me to gain another 60-70 lbs. or so. I wasn’t thrilled about it, but did NOT want to get back into the horrible rollercoaster obsession with weight and diet culture. Meanwhile, Millie continued to whine and moan about all the health problems that were allegedly caused by her weight, and this would always include “I’m so disgusting! I can’t do anything because of this big fat belly! I can’t stand this anymore!! I have to get this OFF me!!!” I told her I DON’T WANT TO HEAR THAT NEGATIVITY ANYMORE!!! You can talk about what you’re trying to do to improve your health or whatever if you want, but do NOT whine about “how horrible and disgusting it is to be fat” because i’m fat too and refuse to think of myself as horrible and disgusting!
So I recently was diagnosed with a heart condition that requires me to weigh myself daily, because any significant gain of 3-5 lbs. in 2 days means excessive water retention, so cut the salt and take an extra water pill. I am HORRIFIED to have to own one of those VILE ABOMINATIONS (scale)… And of course my cardiologist said YOU *HAVE* TO LOSE SOME WEIGHT and immediately suggested digestive mutilation, I mean weight loss, surgery. I told him HELL NO, loudly and in no uncertain terms.
Of course, Millie thought it was just wonderful that I had to monitor my weight so I could track my “progress”. And I have been more careful in my eating habits and have lost about 15 lbs. the past 2 months. But she sooooo didn’t get the point that I am deeply depressed over even having to THINK about my weight.
So the same night as I got back from my depressing visit w/the cardiologist, Millie called me and had that whiny tone of voice going…”I had a terrible day and need to talk…” She started complaining that her personal trainer tried to make her do something and she just couldn’t do it. (does anyone here think the personal trainer is anything more than a status symbol?!) And then “My big belly keeps pressing down on my knees giving me arthritis and I can hardly walk, and I just can’t stand it anymore!”
I just couldn’t listen to this anymore. I said “when you started whining about your belly I held the phone out from my ear so I wouldn’t have to hear about it! I have told you and told you and told you, I don’t want to hear any more of your whining about how horrible it is to be fat!” so she said “So you don’t care that it’s destroying my knees and my back, that i’m in pain all the time? well, if you don’t care about my knees, I don’t care about YOUR breathing problems! If you were really my friend, I could talk to you about ANYTHING….”
I ended that conversation with “Goodbye FOREVER.” So who’s the asshole here, me or her? thanks for reading.